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<blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4063134" data-attributes="member: 40961">This is true, but it misses the second point.&nbsp; While random traps that kill you outright are mostly gone, there are still random traps.&nbsp; Now they just do hit point damage, or inflict ability score damage.&nbsp; Meanwhile the party has a cleric who can cure hit point and ability score damage.&nbsp; The stake is lower- the deathtraps used to make you concerned with character death, and now they make you concerned with using up a cure spell, but its still annoying.That's a fundamental flaw of the isolated, encountered-in-a-vacuum trap, which historically has been perhaps the most common kind.&nbsp; If you have functionally unlimited time to prepare for encountering a trap, and functionally unlimited time to remedy the traps effects after the trap is over, you end up in this dichotomy where either the trap kills you (bad and overpowered) or does curable damage (lame and impotent).&nbsp; The solution is to only use traps in the context of larger scenarios, such as by creating huge death traps that the whole party must enter at once, or by using the traps in conjunction with monsters and other challenges.&nbsp; This requires different encounter design, because you don't have the time to do Search checks in the middle of a fight, but its usually more rewarding.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cadfan, post: 4063134, member: 40961"] This is true, but it misses the second point. While random traps that kill you outright are mostly gone, there are still random traps. Now they just do hit point damage, or inflict ability score damage. Meanwhile the party has a cleric who can cure hit point and ability score damage. The stake is lower- the deathtraps used to make you concerned with character death, and now they make you concerned with using up a cure spell, but its still annoying. That's a fundamental flaw of the isolated, encountered-in-a-vacuum trap, which historically has been perhaps the most common kind. If you have functionally unlimited time to prepare for encountering a trap, and functionally unlimited time to remedy the traps effects after the trap is over, you end up in this dichotomy where either the trap kills you (bad and overpowered) or does curable damage (lame and impotent). The solution is to only use traps in the context of larger scenarios, such as by creating huge death traps that the whole party must enter at once, or by using the traps in conjunction with monsters and other challenges. This requires different encounter design, because you don't have the time to do Search checks in the middle of a fight, but its usually more rewarding. [/QUOTE]

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