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<blockquote data-quote="evilbob" data-source="post: 4032341" data-attributes="member: 9789">In my experience, dragons are always formidable foes, but they have one key limiting factor:&nbsp; the PCs usually know what they are about to face.&nbsp; If the PCs are unprepared and meet a dragon in its own lair, you can probably add at least two to the EL of even a CR 4 dragon.&nbsp; If they are given appropriate hints and figure it out and go in prepared - or better yet, catch the dragon by surprise - then a CR 4 beastie should be exactly what you're looking for:&nbsp; somewhat tough, but not unsurmountable.Examining the situation:&nbsp; a wyrmling red dragon still has 5 attacks and a 2d8 breath weapon that the PCs will likely have a 50% or worse chance to reflex, so it has a good chance to drop a PC on a full attack or hurt all of them pretty well every 1d4 rounds.&nbsp; (Only a rogue has a good chance against the breath weapon.)&nbsp; Additionally, with only 1st level spells, there's not a lot of prep you can really do.&nbsp; So it should certainly be hard for the PCs to chew through its 59 HP.&nbsp; Then again, if the PCs know what to expect and take some precautions and are careful to fight it at full strength (you might even throw them a scroll of resist energy if you're worried), they should make it.&nbsp; A good crit roll from a two-handed, high-strength character even has the potential to take it effectively out of the battle.I would second the idea that once the dragon gets below 50% or maybe even 25% of its HP, it flees - mostly to set them up for a later encounter with &quot;mom&quot; or something along those lines.&nbsp; Or, if the PCs are doing well, let it fight to the death - there's nothing like a couple dragon teeth for a good trophy.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="evilbob, post: 4032341, member: 9789"] In my experience, dragons are always formidable foes, but they have one key limiting factor: the PCs usually know what they are about to face. If the PCs are unprepared and meet a dragon in its own lair, you can probably add at least two to the EL of even a CR 4 dragon. If they are given appropriate hints and figure it out and go in prepared - or better yet, catch the dragon by surprise - then a CR 4 beastie should be exactly what you're looking for: somewhat tough, but not unsurmountable. Examining the situation: a wyrmling red dragon still has 5 attacks and a 2d8 breath weapon that the PCs will likely have a 50% or worse chance to reflex, so it has a good chance to drop a PC on a full attack or hurt all of them pretty well every 1d4 rounds. (Only a rogue has a good chance against the breath weapon.) Additionally, with only 1st level spells, there's not a lot of prep you can really do. So it should certainly be hard for the PCs to chew through its 59 HP. Then again, if the PCs know what to expect and take some precautions and are careful to fight it at full strength (you might even throw them a scroll of resist energy if you're worried), they should make it. A good crit roll from a two-handed, high-strength character even has the potential to take it effectively out of the battle. I would second the idea that once the dragon gets below 50% or maybe even 25% of its HP, it flees - mostly to set them up for a later encounter with "mom" or something along those lines. Or, if the PCs are doing well, let it fight to the death - there's nothing like a couple dragon teeth for a good trophy. :) [/QUOTE]

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