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Dragon intrigue without magic possible?
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<blockquote data-quote="Derren" data-source="post: 3991927" data-attributes="member: 2518"><p>I'm back.</p><p>I won't comment on everyone, that would be too long.</p><p></p><p>-jaer</p><p>A nice writeup. Yes, that generally would be possible without magic. Although there are some points I am not completely satisfied with.</p><p></p><p> First, it all goes to well. There are too many opportunities for (N)PCs to screw up this plan to list them all, but please comment on the more obvious ones. What when the villages in the beginning are not so easily subjugated? What if someone finds out that Thomas is being bribed by unknown forces? Or simply that an ambitious guardsman has an eye on Thomas post? What if some nobles find out that he and the other nobles are being used like this?</p><p>And what would happen is some diviner uses divination on the Rot Grub or Scarlet Fangs?</p><p></p><p>Also some parts are not detailed enough. How does the communication between Ard and the operatives in the city happen? Especially as only the kobolds are allowed to know about Ard, the communication would be very slow. What would happen if there was an emergency?</p><p>Speaking of an emergency, what would happen if adventurers arrive? With level 15 they are easily able to dismantle all organizations in the city except maybe Thomas. What would happen if they come after Ard himself? How would he defend himself against them? And don't assume that the adventurers start at level 1 batteling the minions. That is ok for a campaign but I am more interested in the general possibility of this.</p><p></p><p>- Pbartender and others</p><p>A dragon can't simply buy things with its money. it need agents to do that. And there the trouble begins. The dragon needs this agents, needs a supply chain for them, needs to communicate regulary with them etc.</p><p></p><p>- Loincloth of Armour</p><p>I'm not buying that. A dragon is huge and fear inspiring, but as soon it flies away any "enthrall" effect it had is gone. Maybe some weak nobles will fear it so much to not do anything, but a noble who fought his way up and still has to fight to keep his position (and imo that are the majority) will react very differently, certainly not with submission.</p><p></p><p>- blakkgutz</p><p>Assume whatever you want. Dragons behaved like humans just on a larger scale. Some were nice, some were bad. When humans (or other races) see a dragon they are not sure how the dragon will treat them.</p><p></p><p>- Set</p><p>Much too sketchy for my taste. Please detail it more. Start with explaining how the dragon knows that the wizard showed up within a day or two.</p><p></p><p>- Imperialus</p><p>Its an idea but so far not really detailed. I hope you will expand it as it is a different idea than what the others so far posted. Also keep in mind that I want a dragon as enemy of a typical PC group, not ally.</p><p></p><p>- WayneLigon</p><p>Please don't argue with "The dragon has high Int/Wis/Cha scores, he will find a way". Provide examples and also assume that not everything might go according to the plan.</p><p></p><p>- NealTS</p><p>I know, but thats a general problem of D&D. Simply ignore that for now.</p><p></p><p></p><p>There has been a nice story of a scheming dragon and some nice ideas, but so far everyone forgets that D&D is a high magic world.</p><p>The opposition of the dragon have, depending on their position, access to a lot of magic which so far isn't accounted for. For examples assassinating nobles would be quite hard as they would have several magical protections active all the time. How are they overcome? </p><p>You would need higher level minions to counter all the magic the "good" guys might employ and then you run into the problem that the minions are running the show.</p><p>Also explain the communication issue a bit more. How does the dragon stay in touch with his agents and how does he keep an eye out on possible enemies? Also explain what would happen in an emergency (for example a party of level appropriate (to the dragon) adventurers teleport into the cit to "clean things up"). Also don't forget that bigger towns already do have some high level NPCs living in them.</p><p></p><p>Thanks</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Derren, post: 3991927, member: 2518"] I'm back. I won't comment on everyone, that would be too long. -jaer A nice writeup. Yes, that generally would be possible without magic. Although there are some points I am not completely satisfied with. First, it all goes to well. There are too many opportunities for (N)PCs to screw up this plan to list them all, but please comment on the more obvious ones. What when the villages in the beginning are not so easily subjugated? What if someone finds out that Thomas is being bribed by unknown forces? Or simply that an ambitious guardsman has an eye on Thomas post? What if some nobles find out that he and the other nobles are being used like this? And what would happen is some diviner uses divination on the Rot Grub or Scarlet Fangs? Also some parts are not detailed enough. How does the communication between Ard and the operatives in the city happen? Especially as only the kobolds are allowed to know about Ard, the communication would be very slow. What would happen if there was an emergency? Speaking of an emergency, what would happen if adventurers arrive? With level 15 they are easily able to dismantle all organizations in the city except maybe Thomas. What would happen if they come after Ard himself? How would he defend himself against them? And don't assume that the adventurers start at level 1 batteling the minions. That is ok for a campaign but I am more interested in the general possibility of this. - Pbartender and others A dragon can't simply buy things with its money. it need agents to do that. And there the trouble begins. The dragon needs this agents, needs a supply chain for them, needs to communicate regulary with them etc. - Loincloth of Armour I'm not buying that. A dragon is huge and fear inspiring, but as soon it flies away any "enthrall" effect it had is gone. Maybe some weak nobles will fear it so much to not do anything, but a noble who fought his way up and still has to fight to keep his position (and imo that are the majority) will react very differently, certainly not with submission. - blakkgutz Assume whatever you want. Dragons behaved like humans just on a larger scale. Some were nice, some were bad. When humans (or other races) see a dragon they are not sure how the dragon will treat them. - Set Much too sketchy for my taste. Please detail it more. Start with explaining how the dragon knows that the wizard showed up within a day or two. - Imperialus Its an idea but so far not really detailed. I hope you will expand it as it is a different idea than what the others so far posted. Also keep in mind that I want a dragon as enemy of a typical PC group, not ally. - WayneLigon Please don't argue with "The dragon has high Int/Wis/Cha scores, he will find a way". Provide examples and also assume that not everything might go according to the plan. - NealTS I know, but thats a general problem of D&D. Simply ignore that for now. There has been a nice story of a scheming dragon and some nice ideas, but so far everyone forgets that D&D is a high magic world. The opposition of the dragon have, depending on their position, access to a lot of magic which so far isn't accounted for. For examples assassinating nobles would be quite hard as they would have several magical protections active all the time. How are they overcome? You would need higher level minions to counter all the magic the "good" guys might employ and then you run into the problem that the minions are running the show. Also explain the communication issue a bit more. How does the dragon stay in touch with his agents and how does he keep an eye out on possible enemies? Also explain what would happen in an emergency (for example a party of level appropriate (to the dragon) adventurers teleport into the cit to "clean things up"). Also don't forget that bigger towns already do have some high level NPCs living in them. Thanks [/QUOTE]
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