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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Henry" data-source="post: 1469018" data-attributes="member: 158">I have not yet seen it, so the only part I can comment on is the unbalanced nature of 2E Dark Sun.A 2E to 3E conversion I feel would already have a balancing mechanic in it: in the older versions you HAD to start out 3rd level; the world was just too dangerous otherwise! This two-level gap would have added plenty of wiggle-room for LA+1 or LA+2 classes. Half-giants with strength scores less than 20, and the inclusion of paladins just DO NOT evoke a feel of Dark Sun to me.The question that Kamaikaze Midget posed was "why no paladins?" the answer to me is that there was no room in the setting for an idealistic character-type such as the paladin. Dark Sun was more of a setting full of Anti-heroes than heroes; these were men and women and beasts who valued survival more than personal honor or altruism. The breed of hero who sacrificed his last drink of water to a dying slave died themselves generations ago, survived by those who gave up idealism for just carving out a place for themselves. Paladins in Athas are as antithetical to the setting premise as having a successful Jedi Academy in the Rebellion Era in Star Wars. The biggest heroes in the published novels were a half-breed gladiator / failed general who thought as much of himself as his men, a human Psionic Noble who died an ignoble death, and a Sorceress who ultimately did the right thing, but gained lots of power as a side result.Bards with no magic? Can't help anyone there - I didn't see the Dark Sun Bard's presence as hinging on lack of magic - though they among all others would have needed most to hide their talents from the public. Bards in Dark Sun would have just as well been served by the Rogue Class, since their skills lay around poisoning, gathering info, and deceit.Clerics had no access to resurrection in Dark Sun - it's why everyone had backup characters AS A RULES MECHANIC. Having suitable weapons and armor was not a certainty - a 20 strength is not as useful if you aren't a monk and have no weapons.So there are LOTS of changes to the world, but they weren't for change's sake, they all reinforced the apocalyptic style of the world. To include paladins with noble ideas is to presume that there is enough food, shelter, and water to let someone pursue altruistic goals. To make no allowances for bone and wooden weapons as the weapon of choice is to assume that the world is not as bad off as it is in the original premise. There need to be allowances for heat stroke, water deprivation, and other hazards if one is to model Athas closely.If that isn't taken into account, then it does not do a successful job of modelling Athas in 3E.</blockquote>

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