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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 1254926" data-attributes="member: 5777">a vampire? who cares about them? they are nearly impossible to balance as pcs seeing as how they can have an unbounded number of servants that can all be very very strong.Now, as for other LA's I'm not sure how you can get +5 is average. Do you mean for the dragons? Doesnt even matter in any way, shape, or form what this hypothetical 'average' is as it has no bearing on what I said.Creatures have base HD and then a LA. PCs have have base HD only. Why dont pc classes have a LA? Most creatures are required to pay for their abilities twice, once with hd and once again with LA. This is the main falacy and problem inherant to the system.If you are trying to be a dragon with a base 5hd compare them with a 5th level of every other class. See who is better at what and when and in which way. See if you believe it needs an additional +x level adjustment. In most cases a +1 is excessive, let alone a +5!</blockquote>