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Message: <blockquote data-quote="James McMurray" data-source="post: 1256186" data-attributes="member: 743">I compared it to the race that seemed most closely related to the gnoll. And just because you happen to dislike the half-orc and fighter doesn't mean its a poor basis for comparison. I have a plaer in my group who plays fighters almost exclusively due to the vesatility those bonus feats grant you. But lets try this again, with human as the race, and barbarian as the class.Human Barbarian 44d12 hit dice (37 average hp with con 14 base)BAB: +43 featsbase saves: fort: +4ref: +1will: +1Skill points: 7 x (5 + Int mod)Gnoll Fighter 1+4 strength+2 con2d8 + 1d12 hit dice (28 average hit points with con 14 base)BAB +22 featsbase saves: fort: +5ref: +0will: +0Natural Armor +1Skill points: 5 x (2 + Int mod) + (4 + Int Mod)Overall the two characters seem pretty even. The human has a few more hit points, but over time the Gnoll's increased con stat will even that out. At ECL 20 the gnoll will have about 180 hit point (assuming base con of 14 + 2 for race) while the human would only have 173.The human would have one more iterative attack, but the gnoll's increased strength is going to make him hit more often for more damage.The human has a lot more skill points, but the gnoll had listen and spot as class skills for a while. Those are some pretty useful skills, so I figure this about evens out. Saves are about equal. The gnoll is weaker in his weak areas, but stronger in his strong areas.The gnoll loses access to Trap Sense +6 (oh darn), Damage Reduction 5/- (nice, but his higher hit points and longer rages will partially make up for this), and mighty rage. His higher base strength makes up for that, and then some. It just means that the human is finally caught up to him o con (but only while raging) and is only one point behind in strength mod instead of 2. The gnoll also loses one use of rage per day, but how many 20th level characters actually use 6 rages in a day?</blockquote>

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