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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 1256251" data-attributes="member: 5777">Sorry, didnt mean to sound so harsh with the last message. If you like I can find the threads that were talking about how fighters need a boost. While it is true that some dont agree my mind is more than made up on the issue. They just dont gain enough. In campaigns I have run I have given them a bonus feat at every level instead of every even and all that did was make them on par with other classes. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I like your comparison here but I still get a different answer from it when I look at it. The human is always 3 levels of benefits ahead which is an incredible gap.In your comparison here the human has 35 + 7*intbonus in skill points vs the gnolls 14 + 6*int bonus. Even assuming a 10 int this is an incredible difference. The gnoll may have a few more ranks in spot but that is far from gauranteed. Having nearly 3x the amount of skill points has to count for something! Plus the humans feat could be +2spot/+2 listen which pretty much negates that. Or it could make spot a class skill and give it a +2.That iterative attack that the human is ahead by for about half the time is just icing on the cake for the human. If the human has two attacks vs the gnolls one I know who my money will be on even with the gnolls higher str score.at fourth the humans avg hp are 31.5 +4xconbonus vs the gnolls 19 (assuming the gnolls first hd is maxed, it may be that all of his hd are rolled) I'm not sure how you got your numbers above.. human 12 + 6.5*3 = 31.5 +8from con is 39.5, for the gnoll 8 + 4.5 + 6.5 = 19+6from con = 25. so your human is missing 2.5 hp and the gnoll has 3 too many. (I just noticed, you said base, so the gnolls hp are right)at 20th level the human avg hp is 135.5 +20xconmod vs gnolls 123 + 19xcon mod. So assuming a 10 con for the human and 12 for the gnoll the gnoll wins out on hp 135.5 vs. 142, with 12 vs 14 it becomes 155.5 vs 161, with 14 vs 16 it becomes 175.5 vs 180. And the gap keeps closing with each bonus. Most barbs I've seen have at least an 18 in con for whatever reason by this time. So 18 vs 20 is 215.5 vs 218. Which is definately not a real advantage. Having that extra point of damage reduction will matter more than the extra 2.5 hp on average.I just feel that the gnoll doesnt need that +1 LA. He is already behind in all sorts of ways, no need to further punish what might be an interesting character.</blockquote>

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