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Dragon Reflections #11 - The Sorcerer Speaks!
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7758173" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>If you look at the PHB (1978) or Moldvay Basic (1981) there is not the least hint that players might develop and play their PCs in this sort of fashion. And if a player tried to, what would the GM do? What resources does a GM find in either AD&D or PHB for handling the escapades of a PC whose goal is to "chase women", or who wants to overthrow the government of the realm? How would this fit into the XP-for-gp foundation of these systems, either in its original (mega)dungeon variant or the later predominant module/scenario approach to D&D?</p><p></p><p><a href="https://playsorcerer.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/the-interactive-toolkit-part-two-why-do-modules-suck/" target="_blank">As Chrisopher Kubasik put it around 1993</a>,</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">The basic plot form of a story is this: A central character wants something, goes after it despite opposition, and arrives at a win, lose or draw. All roleplaying games involve this basic plot in one form or another.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Dungeon & Dragons fulfilled this requirement brilliantly and simply. Characters wanted experience points and wanted to gain levels. Any other want they might have had – social, political or personal – was subsumed within the acquisition of levels. . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Dungeon modules worked for this very reason. A D&D character who wanted to become a lord didn’t go off and court a princess. He became a lord by wandering around dungeons, killing monsters and overcoming traps. The game offered no rules for courting a princess, but did provide rules for becoming a lord at 10th level . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Modules disintegrated the moment a player got the bright idea of having his character become a lord by courting a princess. Suddenly the world opened up. Instead of getting what they wanted by pursuing a single activity – namely, overcoming traps and monsters characters now wanted to interact with people, gaining what they wanted through individual action and detailed plots.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">The motivation behind hitting on the princess rather than crawling through a series of traps is obvious. First, and perhaps most importantly for some, the idea of wooing a princess was more fun than hanging out in a dungeon. Second, just because the rules didn’t say anything about wooing didn’t mean you couldn’t do it. As we all know, the minute an idea pops into a player’s head, he’s going to try it. Third, the goofiness of acquiring the title of lord by looting holes grated against the sensibilities of many players. They wanted to become lords in ways that made sense. . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">[N]o pre-generated adventure can be complete because characters have different motivations.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Remember the adventurer who left the dungeon to woo a princess? Before he did that he assumed that if he trashed enough dungeons, a princess would be his once he got to 10th level. His motivations and desires were subsumed within the group activity of exploring dungeons.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Let’s say this guy – Charise d’Amor, a lovable rake who’s trying to marry a rich princess – is your character. You arrive at the gaming table and see the GM crack open a new pre-generated adventure, “The Quest of Tallian’s Orb.”</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">A busy wizard hires your group of adventurers to steal back a magical orb that keeps the fair land of Tallian safe from terrible monsters. He tells you what he knows about the theft of the orb. You’re on the doorstep of a scene-based module. You know the goal, the clues and the options of what to do next.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Let’s assume the author has done a good job. The clues presented are intriguing, not obvious. The characters encountered are amusing and full of life. The scene descriptions help the GM evoke the proper mood. Every, thing is going fine.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">And then the princess shows up. The module’s author just put the princess in because she was a fun character who would have some information about the orb’s location. You see, the guy who wrote the module didn’t know your character is Charise d’Amor.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Suddenly your character doesn’t care about finding the orb. The only reason he’s out searching for an orb in the first place is to pull together enough cash for a suitable set of clothes and an introduction to royalty. But now he’s got a princess right in front of him. You could play “out hours of flirting with the princess. The story suddenly fractures into tiny pieces.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Does everybody wait around for Charise to woo the princess? Do the others leave your character behind? Do you blow the princess off to stay with the group, even though your character’s motivation is right in front of him? . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">The problem is this: simple plots and sophisticated characters just don’t mix. If you want a character who’s more than a hired gun, you’ll be disappointed by pre-generated adventures. . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">The problem is with the structure and format of the adventures themselves. We keep stapling new ideas on top of old ones, putting more interesting characters into formats designed for dungeon crawls. If you want more interesting characters, you have to take the risk of having more interesting stories.</p><p></p><p>I'm not sure that D&D (nor many other RPGs) has solved this problem even in 2018.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7758173, member: 42582"] If you look at the PHB (1978) or Moldvay Basic (1981) there is not the least hint that players might develop and play their PCs in this sort of fashion. And if a player tried to, what would the GM do? What resources does a GM find in either AD&D or PHB for handling the escapades of a PC whose goal is to "chase women", or who wants to overthrow the government of the realm? How would this fit into the XP-for-gp foundation of these systems, either in its original (mega)dungeon variant or the later predominant module/scenario approach to D&D? [url=https://playsorcerer.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/the-interactive-toolkit-part-two-why-do-modules-suck/]As Chrisopher Kubasik put it around 1993[/url], [indent]The basic plot form of a story is this: A central character wants something, goes after it despite opposition, and arrives at a win, lose or draw. All roleplaying games involve this basic plot in one form or another. Dungeon & Dragons fulfilled this requirement brilliantly and simply. Characters wanted experience points and wanted to gain levels. Any other want they might have had – social, political or personal – was subsumed within the acquisition of levels. . . . Dungeon modules worked for this very reason. A D&D character who wanted to become a lord didn’t go off and court a princess. He became a lord by wandering around dungeons, killing monsters and overcoming traps. The game offered no rules for courting a princess, but did provide rules for becoming a lord at 10th level . . . Modules disintegrated the moment a player got the bright idea of having his character become a lord by courting a princess. Suddenly the world opened up. Instead of getting what they wanted by pursuing a single activity – namely, overcoming traps and monsters characters now wanted to interact with people, gaining what they wanted through individual action and detailed plots. The motivation behind hitting on the princess rather than crawling through a series of traps is obvious. First, and perhaps most importantly for some, the idea of wooing a princess was more fun than hanging out in a dungeon. Second, just because the rules didn’t say anything about wooing didn’t mean you couldn’t do it. As we all know, the minute an idea pops into a player’s head, he’s going to try it. Third, the goofiness of acquiring the title of lord by looting holes grated against the sensibilities of many players. They wanted to become lords in ways that made sense. . . . [N]o pre-generated adventure can be complete because characters have different motivations. Remember the adventurer who left the dungeon to woo a princess? Before he did that he assumed that if he trashed enough dungeons, a princess would be his once he got to 10th level. His motivations and desires were subsumed within the group activity of exploring dungeons. Let’s say this guy – Charise d’Amor, a lovable rake who’s trying to marry a rich princess – is your character. You arrive at the gaming table and see the GM crack open a new pre-generated adventure, “The Quest of Tallian’s Orb.” A busy wizard hires your group of adventurers to steal back a magical orb that keeps the fair land of Tallian safe from terrible monsters. He tells you what he knows about the theft of the orb. You’re on the doorstep of a scene-based module. You know the goal, the clues and the options of what to do next. Let’s assume the author has done a good job. The clues presented are intriguing, not obvious. The characters encountered are amusing and full of life. The scene descriptions help the GM evoke the proper mood. Every, thing is going fine. And then the princess shows up. The module’s author just put the princess in because she was a fun character who would have some information about the orb’s location. You see, the guy who wrote the module didn’t know your character is Charise d’Amor. Suddenly your character doesn’t care about finding the orb. The only reason he’s out searching for an orb in the first place is to pull together enough cash for a suitable set of clothes and an introduction to royalty. But now he’s got a princess right in front of him. You could play “out hours of flirting with the princess. The story suddenly fractures into tiny pieces. Does everybody wait around for Charise to woo the princess? Do the others leave your character behind? Do you blow the princess off to stay with the group, even though your character’s motivation is right in front of him? . . . The problem is this: simple plots and sophisticated characters just don’t mix. If you want a character who’s more than a hired gun, you’ll be disappointed by pre-generated adventures. . . . The problem is with the structure and format of the adventures themselves. We keep stapling new ideas on top of old ones, putting more interesting characters into formats designed for dungeon crawls. If you want more interesting characters, you have to take the risk of having more interesting stories.[/indent] I'm not sure that D&D (nor many other RPGs) has solved this problem even in 2018. [/QUOTE]
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