Dragonblood taking Dragon feats

[Jdvn1]

Don't Draconic Heritage feats by nature require ( Dragontouched OR (Sorceror lvl 1 AND Draconic Heritage feat)) ?

No, they don't.

The Draconic Heritage [DRACONIC] feat requires Sorcerer level 1st and the other Draconic Heritage feats require Draconic Heritage and sorcerer level 1st (except for Draconic Legacy, which just requires any four draconic feats).

It's pretty clear, but I think you're getting turned around, so let's look at it critically:

Dragontouched
Prerequisites: Cha 11
Benefit: You gain the dragonblood subtype. You gain 1 hit point, a +1 bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot check, and a +1 bonus on saving throws against paralysis and sleep effects. In addition, you can select draconic feats as if you were a sorcerer of your character level.

We see the Dragontouched feat allows you to select draconic feats as if you were a sorcerer of your character level, but not as if you had already taken the Draconic Heritage [DRACONIC] feat. That means that a character with the Dragontouched feat doesn't have to be a sorcerer to take the Draconic Heritage feat, not that he can take any other [DRACONIC] feat.

That is, the Dragontouched feat only allows you to bypass the sorcerer requirement.

If there were another [DRACONIC] feat that didn't require Draconic Heritage, then a character without Draconic Heritage could take it, given that he meets all other prereq's.

If there were [DRACONIC] feats that didn't require Draconic Heritage but did have a sorcerer level requirement, then a character with the Dragontouched feat could take it, given that he meets all other prereq's.

So as a dragonborn, I would have to waste a feat just to have access to the draconic feats that are 'powerful enough'.

Yes, according to the rules.

Besides which, most of the feats that have dragon as a type prereq tend to have other reqs like size, Con, Str, etc. The reason I think this is a valid question is that the Draconomicon, like the Monster Manual, was published prior to the existance of the Dragonblood subtype.

That's a good point, though issues like this are supposed to be resolved in the newer books (as in, Dragon Magic or Races of the Dragon would clarify how to modify core stuff so it works more smoothly), and would also be included in errata (like they did with Swift and Immediate actions).

Regardless of the intention or reason the authors did as they did, RAW (the rules as written) must be taken as-is. Otherwise, it boils down to guesswork.

Then, regardless of the actual ruling, is it balanced?

To allow races that don't qualify for dragon feats to take them? Or to allow any race to take the [MONSTROUS] dragon feats? I dunno, I'd guess it'd depend on the feat. I think Awaken Frightful Presence might be unbalanced for a 1st level character, but I'm not sure. I certainly would think it'd would be odd for any Commoner to take it.

Or do you mean to let dragonblooded characters assume the Draconic Heritage feat? I don't think it would be balanced in that case. Feats past entry feats tend to be powerful enough to warrant the entry feat in the first place.

Why would a half-orc have the vulnerabilities of being both human and orc without having access to the same hypothetical benefits?

First of all, Half-Orcs are kind of a corner case. They're generally considered way underpowered anyway. Secondly, what vulnerabilities of being Human do they have? And, who said the other "Half" of the "Half-Orc" was Human?

I suppose that the question can really boil down to this. Would you allow a half-elf, or a half-orc take feats that have orc, or elf as a prereq?

I don't agree that it's a similar question, since Half-Elves, Half-Orcs, Orcs, and Elves, all have the Humanoid type and only differ in subtype, whereas dragons and dragonblooded differ in both subtype and type (except for those few dragons that take the Draconic Heritage or Dragontouched feats, but for them this is a non-issue). Besides, the Arcane Archer PrC give evidence for an answer of 'No' anyway (since it requires 'Elf or half-elf'--if half-elves qualify for anything an elf can take, they wouldn't have specified both).

 

[Daenur]

Dude, that was so well argued that my head hurts... >.<

 

[Jdvn1]

Oh, and welcome to EN World.

Note that:
1. [Monstrous] feats can be taken by PCs, with GM approval, according to RAW, but I think most GMs wouldn't allow you to bypass any explicit prereq's (such as 'dragon type'... whereas some [Monstrous] feats have very easy-to-qualify-for prereq's like 'Cha 11').
2. It's also worth noting the line on page 102 of RotD, "Anyone interested in taking draconic feats must take the very first feat in the series: Draconic Heritage."
3. A lenient GM might let any dragon-blooded race take the Dragonwrought feat.

 

[Joshua McKee]

So you are saying that if my character was of dragon blood naturally and became a dragonborn thus gaining the dragonblood subtype (via result of the right of rebirth) I would still need to sacrifice a feat and take dragontouched as a prerequisite for any Pr/C that requires dragontouched as a prerequisite; like Hand of the Winged Masters?

 

[dave2008]

So you are saying that if my character was of dragon blood naturally and became a dragonborn thus gaining the dragonblood subtype (via result of the right of rebirth) I would still need to sacrifice a feat and take dragontouched as a prerequisite for any Pr/C that requires dragontouched as a prerequisite; like Hand of the Winged Masters?

Just to be clear, you are responding to a thread that is 15 over years old since the last post before yours.

 

[Joshua McKee]

Just to be clear, you are responding to a thread that is 15 over years old since the last post before yours.

yes I am well aware that it is very old. It still does not negate the fact that I have a legitimate question regarding the subject. Especially since I am currently faced with such a scenario in my D&D game. No I am not mistaking 5e for 3.5. I started playing 3.5 in 2010 and had to stop playing a year later. I recently started playing again in 2019 but found 5e to be lame and stupid; so I returned to 3.5 2 years ago. So I will wait for as long as possible for answer.

The fact that this thread is still open and I am posting a legitimate question ( which you can see by my post) means that my question has merit and is relevent. I am assuming you were not trying to be condesending towards my post/me and I most certainly do not mean to do so myself.

If you have an answer to my question that's fine I can wait for one. I am a very patient being. after all I waited for over a decade for an opportunity to play 3.5 again. I can wait; I can most assuredly wait.

 

[dave2008]

yes I am well aware that it is very old. It still does not negate the fact that I have a legitimate question regarding the subject. Especially since I am currently faced with such a scenario in my D&D game. No I am not mistaking 5e for 3.5. I started playing 3.5 in 2010 and had to stop playing a year later. I recently started playing again in 2019 but found 5e to be lame and stupid; so I returned to 3.5 2 years ago. So I will wait for as long as possible for answer.

The fact that this thread is still open and I am posting a legitimate question ( which you can see by my post) means that my question has merit and is relevent. I am assuming you were not trying to be condesending towards my post/me and I most certainly do not mean to do so myself.

If you have an answer to my question that's fine I can wait for one. I am a very patient being. after all I waited for over a decade for an opportunity to play 3.5 again. I can wait; I can most assuredly wait.

Sorry, I was just trying to be helpful. Usually people thank me when I let them know. I wanted to make sure you where aware because you may not get a response from such an old thread. Even more so as it is a D&D question in the Pathfinder forum and not a lot of people visit this forum.

Unfortunately I skipped 3e (from 1e to 4e to 5e for me), I so I can't help you with your issue.