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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Dragonborn Paladin "Pre-gen"
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<blockquote data-quote="Verys Arkon" data-source="post: 4152339" data-attributes="member: 60891"><p>I've enjoyed your Dragonborn paladin a lot, and I thought I'd jump in here to discuss Defenses a bit; I don't care if "I'm" right or not, I just want the PrRC to be as accurate as we can reasonably get, and if the discussion here helps all the better. (I use "I'm" loosely, since I've only selected what appeared to be the most well argued theory from amongst many, and didn't actually develop the theory myself). I'm certainly not a 4e expert, with no special access to the rules, and I'll be the first to acknowledge that some of the reverse engineering suffers from equifinality. </p><p></p><p></p><p>For Corrin's Defenses (using what is currently in PrRCv1.3.1),</p><p>AC 20 (10 + 2 heavy shield + 8 plate)</p><p>Fort 13 (10 +2 Str, +1 paladin)</p><p>Ref 14 (10 +1 Dex, +2 heavy shield, <strong><span style="color: DarkOliveGreen">+1 paladin</span></strong>)</p><p>Will 14 (10 +3 Cha, +1 paladin) </p><p></p><p>and what you'd like to see is</p><p>AC 20 (10 + 2 heavy shield + 8 plate)</p><p>Fort 13 (10 +2 Str, +1 paladin)</p><p>Ref 14 (10 +1 Dex, +2 heavy shield, <strong><span style="color: Olive">+1 halfling</span></strong>)</p><p>Will 14 (10 +3 Cha, +1 paladin)</p><p></p><p>First reason that I think Paladin's get +1 to all 3 defenses is that I think it is more balanced against a class that gets a single +2 (even though the sum is one greater). +2 in one defense, I would argue, is more powerful than +1 in two defenses, for the same reason a Jack-of-all-Trades is a Master-of-None. A focused character is generally more powerful than a generalist. +1 to 3 defenses seems somewhat better, IMO.</p><p></p><p>Second reason: Of all the races, only the human (as presented in PrRC, at any rate) gets any defense bonuses, which seems to go well with the 'durable' description from R&C nicely. It would seem odd that only one other class would get a +1 to a defense. Why not Dwarves getting +1 Fortitude, or Elves +1 Reflex, or Eladrin +1 Will? If you are going to give it to one race (besides humans, because they are 'special'), why not the others? I think the racial ability modifiers (+2 Dex, +2 Cha for halflings, as far as we can tell) are sufficient to represent the nimbleness of the halflings, and don't need a special +1 to Reflex defense in addition.</p><p></p><p>Third reason: the odd class out of the defenses in v1.3.1 is the Warlock, with +1 to two defenses. But the pregen still has an unidentified +1 AC. General opinion is that the +1 AC comes from a class trait/pact/build path. If that is the case, then all the classes will have either +2 to one defense, or +1 to three defenses. This seems to create a pretty good pattern between classes.</p><p></p><p>Fourth: Size modifiers are poorly understood at this point. It might be possible that halflings get a +1 Reflex defense from being "small". On the other hand, the halfling got a size boost to about 4 feet, and now move at 6 squares (assuming that heavy armor reduces speed by 1 to 5 for the pregen), and there doesn't seem to be a size bonus to attack or AC. Perhaps the effects of being classed 'small' are less meaningful in 4e.</p><p></p><p>There is no "I'm right, your wrong" here, all we can do is try to logically deduce as best we can for now. Ultimately we will know in June. In the meantime, have a blast with the Dragonborn paladin you've made, it looks great. At worst you or I would make a character with a +/- 1 difference or three, and I don't think that is enough to ruin anyone's fun.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Verys Arkon, post: 4152339, member: 60891"] I've enjoyed your Dragonborn paladin a lot, and I thought I'd jump in here to discuss Defenses a bit; I don't care if "I'm" right or not, I just want the PrRC to be as accurate as we can reasonably get, and if the discussion here helps all the better. (I use "I'm" loosely, since I've only selected what appeared to be the most well argued theory from amongst many, and didn't actually develop the theory myself). I'm certainly not a 4e expert, with no special access to the rules, and I'll be the first to acknowledge that some of the reverse engineering suffers from equifinality. For Corrin's Defenses (using what is currently in PrRCv1.3.1), AC 20 (10 + 2 heavy shield + 8 plate) Fort 13 (10 +2 Str, +1 paladin) Ref 14 (10 +1 Dex, +2 heavy shield, [B][COLOR=DarkOliveGreen]+1 paladin[/COLOR][/B]) Will 14 (10 +3 Cha, +1 paladin) and what you'd like to see is AC 20 (10 + 2 heavy shield + 8 plate) Fort 13 (10 +2 Str, +1 paladin) Ref 14 (10 +1 Dex, +2 heavy shield, [B][COLOR=Olive]+1 halfling[/COLOR][/B]) Will 14 (10 +3 Cha, +1 paladin) First reason that I think Paladin's get +1 to all 3 defenses is that I think it is more balanced against a class that gets a single +2 (even though the sum is one greater). +2 in one defense, I would argue, is more powerful than +1 in two defenses, for the same reason a Jack-of-all-Trades is a Master-of-None. A focused character is generally more powerful than a generalist. +1 to 3 defenses seems somewhat better, IMO. Second reason: Of all the races, only the human (as presented in PrRC, at any rate) gets any defense bonuses, which seems to go well with the 'durable' description from R&C nicely. It would seem odd that only one other class would get a +1 to a defense. Why not Dwarves getting +1 Fortitude, or Elves +1 Reflex, or Eladrin +1 Will? If you are going to give it to one race (besides humans, because they are 'special'), why not the others? I think the racial ability modifiers (+2 Dex, +2 Cha for halflings, as far as we can tell) are sufficient to represent the nimbleness of the halflings, and don't need a special +1 to Reflex defense in addition. Third reason: the odd class out of the defenses in v1.3.1 is the Warlock, with +1 to two defenses. But the pregen still has an unidentified +1 AC. General opinion is that the +1 AC comes from a class trait/pact/build path. If that is the case, then all the classes will have either +2 to one defense, or +1 to three defenses. This seems to create a pretty good pattern between classes. Fourth: Size modifiers are poorly understood at this point. It might be possible that halflings get a +1 Reflex defense from being "small". On the other hand, the halfling got a size boost to about 4 feet, and now move at 6 squares (assuming that heavy armor reduces speed by 1 to 5 for the pregen), and there doesn't seem to be a size bonus to attack or AC. Perhaps the effects of being classed 'small' are less meaningful in 4e. There is no "I'm right, your wrong" here, all we can do is try to logically deduce as best we can for now. Ultimately we will know in June. In the meantime, have a blast with the Dragonborn paladin you've made, it looks great. At worst you or I would make a character with a +/- 1 difference or three, and I don't think that is enough to ruin anyone's fun. [/QUOTE]
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