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[Dragonlance/Faerun] Anyone here met any Cataclysm/Wall of the Faithless defenders?
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<blockquote data-quote="wingsandsword" data-source="post: 8114401" data-attributes="member: 14159"><p>I wouldn't say it's for "the greater good", but it's nowhere NEAR as unreasonable as some people make it out to be. </p><p></p><p>There are a lot of misconceptions about the Faithless in Kelemvor's realm.</p><p></p><p>You only end up as one of the Faithless if you actively deny all the Gods during your life. Doing that in a world where the Gods Themselves walk the world regularly and their existence isn't a matter of faith, but objective fact.</p><p></p><p>If you never followed one in particular and weren't particularly devout, then you end up being claimed by one who fits your general personality and alignment. A random farmer will likely be claimed by Chanuntea. A random soldier might be claimed by Tempus. A lawful good individual might be claimed by Tyr, and a neutral good individual might be claimed by Lathander. </p><p></p><p>Interspheric arrangements and deals mean that if you followed a non-Faerunian power, you'd be handed off from Kelemvor to whatever god or gods you worshipped outside Faerun. It's the same divine back-end deals that let clerics of non-Faerunian deities receive spells while on Toril.</p><p></p><p>If you never followed one, followed an evil one and now fear what will happen to you in the afterlife, or even if you actively denied them and don't want to end up in the wall and are of an evil alignment, you can make a deal with fiends to go to the Lower Planes instead of the wall.</p><p></p><p>To earn a spot among the Faithless, you had to be actively atheistic in a world where divine avatars walk the world regularly, where prayers to gods are answered with actual bona-fide miracles on a daily basis in every village and small town, and where planar travelers can literally go to the planar homes of the gods and see they are there. . .and that the wall of the Faithless is well known to exist.</p><p></p><p>You have to actively deny all the Gods, knowing all this, to earn a spot there. At that point you'd basically have to be one of the Athar from Planescape, dying while visiting Faerun, or someone who's been converted to the Athar philosophy (that the gods aren't truly deities, that they're simply powerful outsiders playing an elaborate scam on mortals), to count.</p><p></p><p>Think how relatively uncommon atheists are in the real world. About 5% of the US population identifies as atheist according to recent polls. 10% of the population, when asked, say they don't believe in any form of god or higher power (so about 5% of people meet the definition but don't call themselves that)</p><p></p><p>Another 5% is agnostic, and 19% of the people who say they are atheist, when asked about their beliefs, say they do believer in some form of higher power.</p><p></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/12/06/10-facts-about-atheists/[/URL]</p><p></p><p>That's in a world where it's purely a matter of faith, there's no hard, objective, quantifiable proof of religion. In Faerun, pretty much every member of the clergy gets real, bona-fide answers when they pray, where many people have seen the avatars of Gods themselves walk the world, where people have gone to the Outer Planes and visited the homes of the gods, and the fate of total nonbelievers is well known. </p><p></p><p>I'd expect only a pretty small part of the population, 1% or less, to be truly Faithless, and those bricks in the wall don't get added too horribly often.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wingsandsword, post: 8114401, member: 14159"] I wouldn't say it's for "the greater good", but it's nowhere NEAR as unreasonable as some people make it out to be. There are a lot of misconceptions about the Faithless in Kelemvor's realm. You only end up as one of the Faithless if you actively deny all the Gods during your life. Doing that in a world where the Gods Themselves walk the world regularly and their existence isn't a matter of faith, but objective fact. If you never followed one in particular and weren't particularly devout, then you end up being claimed by one who fits your general personality and alignment. A random farmer will likely be claimed by Chanuntea. A random soldier might be claimed by Tempus. A lawful good individual might be claimed by Tyr, and a neutral good individual might be claimed by Lathander. Interspheric arrangements and deals mean that if you followed a non-Faerunian power, you'd be handed off from Kelemvor to whatever god or gods you worshipped outside Faerun. It's the same divine back-end deals that let clerics of non-Faerunian deities receive spells while on Toril. If you never followed one, followed an evil one and now fear what will happen to you in the afterlife, or even if you actively denied them and don't want to end up in the wall and are of an evil alignment, you can make a deal with fiends to go to the Lower Planes instead of the wall. To earn a spot among the Faithless, you had to be actively atheistic in a world where divine avatars walk the world regularly, where prayers to gods are answered with actual bona-fide miracles on a daily basis in every village and small town, and where planar travelers can literally go to the planar homes of the gods and see they are there. . .and that the wall of the Faithless is well known to exist. You have to actively deny all the Gods, knowing all this, to earn a spot there. At that point you'd basically have to be one of the Athar from Planescape, dying while visiting Faerun, or someone who's been converted to the Athar philosophy (that the gods aren't truly deities, that they're simply powerful outsiders playing an elaborate scam on mortals), to count. Think how relatively uncommon atheists are in the real world. About 5% of the US population identifies as atheist according to recent polls. 10% of the population, when asked, say they don't believe in any form of god or higher power (so about 5% of people meet the definition but don't call themselves that) Another 5% is agnostic, and 19% of the people who say they are atheist, when asked about their beliefs, say they do believer in some form of higher power. [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/12/06/10-facts-about-atheists/[/URL] That's in a world where it's purely a matter of faith, there's no hard, objective, quantifiable proof of religion. In Faerun, pretty much every member of the clergy gets real, bona-fide answers when they pray, where many people have seen the avatars of Gods themselves walk the world, where people have gone to the Outer Planes and visited the homes of the gods, and the fate of total nonbelievers is well known. I'd expect only a pretty small part of the population, 1% or less, to be truly Faithless, and those bricks in the wall don't get added too horribly often. [/QUOTE]
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[Dragonlance/Faerun] Anyone here met any Cataclysm/Wall of the Faithless defenders?
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