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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8115756" data-attributes="member: 6801228">So a few notes, since I went and did some research. I pulled up the wiki, then dug around for various sources within that wiki. And I've come away with some interesting observations. You are correct that in the... two other sources that ever seem to mention the wall they do not say it is painful. They mention being mortared into the wall, it being a punishment, them being destroyed and the green mold that the video clip talked about. But, they don't mention it being a painful transition per se. It also isn't permanent per se, since Demons attack the wall and drag out souls for them to consume or make into other demons.However, one thing I did find is that the False are not made part of the wall. They are instead relegated to "eternal servitude" in the City of the Dead, with only occasional torture by Devils. So, no non-existance for the False, just eternal slavery and brightened up with bouts of torture. And the Faithless are, at best, bound and unmoving until they are either consumed by demons or finally fade into Oblivion. And again, the Gods and Goddesses of Mercy and Forgiveness... do nothing. I can see it for the False, but the Faithless? Oh, and side note, saying they can't experience their bones cracking, because they are a spirit seems to miss how some of the DnD realms portray such shades. Many are "souls" that basically just exist as their bodies would, not some ectoplasm floating in nothingness.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I think this misses though that the Wall was created by Myrkul as a punishment. So, those Faithless were Myrkul's souls to begin with and he decided to what.... burn them into ash instead of using them? And, I always love how we say that the bad things must happen because the Evil gods act to prevent the good gods from fixing it. Maybe the scene is handled well, but why does Cyric get to act to stop Torm, but no God or goddes ever acted to stop Myrkul? I mean, does it not make sense that a Goddess of Mercy would act to stop pointless torture and cruelty perpetuated by Myrkul? But, him making the wall is never challenged. All the sources I read simply say "Myrkul created the wall" No gods went to stop his Evil, no one interfered. But, when Torm goes to prevent someone from being put into the wall, we are told that the reason he can't prevent it is because evil gods like Cyric will interfere and prevent such a good and noble act from happening? Why?------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------As I said in the above post though, this just kicks the can. Saying Kelemvor can't change it because Myrkul created the system and he just inherited it has multiple problems. Like, saying that Myrkul was more powerful, because his work can't be undone. Or raising the legitimate question of why Myrkul was not opposed in creating the wall. I mean, we have to remember that Myrkul wasn't even the first God of the Dead. Jergal was. Myrkul was an ascended mortal. He supposedly lived during the Netherese Empire, so about -3,800 DR at the earliest? He was likely an established god no earlier than -3,700? The oldest date I can find is in the "Days of Thunder" at -35,000 DR. So, easily 31,000 years of history went by without the Wall of the Faithless. Corellon literally helped rip apart the continent in -17,600 to provide a home for his people. He is incredibly old, and the leader of the Pantheon in charge of all Elvish souls, he didn't decide that some upstart mortal nearly 14,000 years later could shove it when he tried to make a way to destroy elven souls? I mean, most of the gods of the Pantheon are far far far older than Myrkul, and operated for millenia under a completely different system, did they just... not notice him altering the rules to siphon souls away from them? And what purpose does Ao (who doesn't even care about mortals) have in decreeing this? We have no evidence he did, he isn't even part of this story. Bringing him in to decree it is just the only way we can make sense that these gods were inactive and stood by.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------But why, when that was likely the system for Millenia? Over 30,000 years of history passed by without a Wall of the Faithless. What changed?</blockquote>

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