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[Dragonlance/Faerun] Anyone here met any Cataclysm/Wall of the Faithless defenders?
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<blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 8120580" data-attributes="member: 8461"><p>Contrary to popular belief, 2E did not do away with archdevils and demon lords, even before Planescape rolled around. It just didn't have an entirely consistent take on them.</p><p></p><p>As early as <a href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/16895/DMGR4-Monster-Mythology-2e?affiliate_id=820" target="_blank"><em>DMGR4 Monster Mythology</em></a>, several demon lords were presented as full deities, including Yeenoghu, Juiblex, and Demogorgon, though several others were missing. Oddly, other demon lords such as Graz'zt (who turned up in Planescape's <a href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17298/Planes-of-Chaos-2e?affiliate_id=820" target="_blank"><em>Planes of Chaos</em></a> boxed set) would be presented as non-divine entities, but who were able to grant lower-level clerical spells to worshipers.</p><p></p><p>The archdevils (that is, the Lords of the Nine) were a bit trickier. Insofar as I'm aware, they only received stats in an article titled, appropriately enough, "The Lords of the Nine" in <em>Dragon</em> magazine #223 (November, 1995). It treats them as not being gods, and says that they can't grant spells (which keeps in accordance with what Planescape laid down, e.g. their entry in <a href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/121101/On-Hallowed-Ground-2e?affiliate_id=820" target="_blank"><em>On Hallowed Ground</em></a>, since the article was written by Planescape developer Colin McComb; the whole thing honestly seemed like material cut from the <a href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17272/Planes-of-Law-2e?affiliate_id=820" target="_blank"><em>Planes of Law</em></a> boxed set), but expressly says that the stats it provides are for their "avatars." It also only does this for the first eight of them, saying that the identity and abilities of the "Dark Lord of Nessus" (the lowest layer of Hell) were unknown.</p><p></p><p>However, Geryon, one of the Lords of the Nine in 1E who was deposed by the time 2E rolled around, was given stats directly (with no mention of avatars) in <a href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17356/A-Paladin-in-Hell-2e?affiliate_id=820" target="_blank"><em>A Paladin in Hell</em></a>, with the same being true for Moloch in <a href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17303/The-Apocalypse-Stone-2e?affiliate_id=820" target="_blank"><em>The Apocalypse Stone</em></a> (possibly because of their fallen status, though that's speculative).</p><p></p><p><em>Please note my use of affiliate links in this post.</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Alzrius, post: 8120580, member: 8461"] Contrary to popular belief, 2E did not do away with archdevils and demon lords, even before Planescape rolled around. It just didn't have an entirely consistent take on them. As early as [URL='https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/16895/DMGR4-Monster-Mythology-2e?affiliate_id=820'][I]DMGR4 Monster Mythology[/I][/URL], several demon lords were presented as full deities, including Yeenoghu, Juiblex, and Demogorgon, though several others were missing. Oddly, other demon lords such as Graz'zt (who turned up in Planescape's [URL='https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17298/Planes-of-Chaos-2e?affiliate_id=820'][I]Planes of Chaos[/I][/URL] boxed set) would be presented as non-divine entities, but who were able to grant lower-level clerical spells to worshipers. The archdevils (that is, the Lords of the Nine) were a bit trickier. Insofar as I'm aware, they only received stats in an article titled, appropriately enough, "The Lords of the Nine" in [I]Dragon[/I] magazine #223 (November, 1995). It treats them as not being gods, and says that they can't grant spells (which keeps in accordance with what Planescape laid down, e.g. their entry in [URL='https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/121101/On-Hallowed-Ground-2e?affiliate_id=820'][I]On Hallowed Ground[/I][/URL], since the article was written by Planescape developer Colin McComb; the whole thing honestly seemed like material cut from the [URL='https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17272/Planes-of-Law-2e?affiliate_id=820'][I]Planes of Law[/I][/URL] boxed set), but expressly says that the stats it provides are for their "avatars." It also only does this for the first eight of them, saying that the identity and abilities of the "Dark Lord of Nessus" (the lowest layer of Hell) were unknown. However, Geryon, one of the Lords of the Nine in 1E who was deposed by the time 2E rolled around, was given stats directly (with no mention of avatars) in [URL='https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17356/A-Paladin-in-Hell-2e?affiliate_id=820'][I]A Paladin in Hell[/I][/URL], with the same being true for Moloch in [URL='https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17303/The-Apocalypse-Stone-2e?affiliate_id=820'][I]The Apocalypse Stone[/I][/URL] (possibly because of their fallen status, though that's speculative). [I]Please note my use of affiliate links in this post.[/I] [/QUOTE]
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[Dragonlance/Faerun] Anyone here met any Cataclysm/Wall of the Faithless defenders?
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