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[Dragonlance/Faerun] Anyone here met any Cataclysm/Wall of the Faithless defenders?
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8124634" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Sharing a name does tend to make things the same, but we can agree to disagree. </p><p></p><p>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Because you are confusing war and opposition. </p><p></p><p>Bane orders his followers to tyranize a town, to subjugate the villagers to his worship. Tyr sends a few of his followers to defeat them, freeing the town who gratefully erect a shrine in Tyr's honor. In fact, one boy is so moved by his saviors that in ten years he becomes a paladin and goes out spreading the Faith of Tyr and converting more people. </p><p></p><p>The goal, over time, is to deny Bane worshippers and have Tyr gain more, thus strangling Bane's power and eventually defeating him. </p><p></p><p>They do not need to assault Bane directly in his home realm, because they can defeat him indirectly by weakening his presence on Faerun. In fact, this is the accepted competition between the gods.</p><p></p><p></p><p>But the Wall doesn't work this way. You can't "strangle" the Wall's existence, it has already existed past it's creator, and all it would take for the gods to stop more souls from going into it would be to... just agree to stop. To petition for its end, to oppose its use... and there is no Deity listed in all of the lore who opposed the Wall in general. Am I taking a lack of evidence to mean something? Yes. If they opposed the wall, I would expect to see evidence. If they did not oppose the wall, I would expect to see nothing. I see nothing, therefore them not opposing it makes more sense. Silence speaks volumes after all,.</p><p></p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, but that is a hard sell. The things that Devil's really need to do is convince someone that they are not evil. "The Lesser of Two Evils" is a thing, so you not only need to bring down the gods of good, but raise the Devil's up as helping mortals. </p><p></p><p>For my setting I went the route of "unified force". The Gods are allowing mortals to decide the shape of the future going forward, to pick which path will work. Devil's say that that disunity is going to get us all killed by demons and abominations, instead, they have a plan and they are actively recruiting for that plan. Everyone unified under a single ruler, and based on a meritocracy. You are a better ruler than your boss? Prove it, get promoted and take over. Every seat is up for grabs because we want the best people in charge to make this universe work. </p><p></p><p>I'm kind of proud of them, since they seem like a very legitimate option to take.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>As I understand it, what Kelemvor really did that swayed the mortals was that he made his realm a paradise, and he let anyone he felt was good, brave, ect, stay there if there god did not want to claim them. </p><p></p><p>Supposedly this made mortals more reckless, because dying in battle just meant you got an awesome afterlife for eternity, and that was bad. But... personally I don't think the logic of those events really plays out that way.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8124634, member: 6801228"] Sharing a name does tend to make things the same, but we can agree to disagree. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Because you are confusing war and opposition. Bane orders his followers to tyranize a town, to subjugate the villagers to his worship. Tyr sends a few of his followers to defeat them, freeing the town who gratefully erect a shrine in Tyr's honor. In fact, one boy is so moved by his saviors that in ten years he becomes a paladin and goes out spreading the Faith of Tyr and converting more people. The goal, over time, is to deny Bane worshippers and have Tyr gain more, thus strangling Bane's power and eventually defeating him. They do not need to assault Bane directly in his home realm, because they can defeat him indirectly by weakening his presence on Faerun. In fact, this is the accepted competition between the gods. But the Wall doesn't work this way. You can't "strangle" the Wall's existence, it has already existed past it's creator, and all it would take for the gods to stop more souls from going into it would be to... just agree to stop. To petition for its end, to oppose its use... and there is no Deity listed in all of the lore who opposed the Wall in general. Am I taking a lack of evidence to mean something? Yes. If they opposed the wall, I would expect to see evidence. If they did not oppose the wall, I would expect to see nothing. I see nothing, therefore them not opposing it makes more sense. Silence speaks volumes after all,. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sure, but that is a hard sell. The things that Devil's really need to do is convince someone that they are not evil. "The Lesser of Two Evils" is a thing, so you not only need to bring down the gods of good, but raise the Devil's up as helping mortals. For my setting I went the route of "unified force". The Gods are allowing mortals to decide the shape of the future going forward, to pick which path will work. Devil's say that that disunity is going to get us all killed by demons and abominations, instead, they have a plan and they are actively recruiting for that plan. Everyone unified under a single ruler, and based on a meritocracy. You are a better ruler than your boss? Prove it, get promoted and take over. Every seat is up for grabs because we want the best people in charge to make this universe work. I'm kind of proud of them, since they seem like a very legitimate option to take. As I understand it, what Kelemvor really did that swayed the mortals was that he made his realm a paradise, and he let anyone he felt was good, brave, ect, stay there if there god did not want to claim them. Supposedly this made mortals more reckless, because dying in battle just meant you got an awesome afterlife for eternity, and that was bad. But... personally I don't think the logic of those events really plays out that way. [/QUOTE]
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[Dragonlance/Faerun] Anyone here met any Cataclysm/Wall of the Faithless defenders?
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