Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
ShortQuests -- individual adventure modules! An all-new collection of digest-sized D&D adventures designed to plug in to your game.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Infiniti2000" data-source="post: 2879629" data-attributes="member: 31734">(Psi)SeveredHead, you need to redo all your comparisons fairly.  That is, don't selectively choose the optimum build for a PC and not the dragon, don't use good PC tactics and stupid dragon tactics, don't allow the PC's equipment but not the dragon, etc.  I find your initial post equivalent to: "If an optimized build of four PC's encounters a naked, penniless dragon in an open field (or not, depending on what the PC's want), then the dragon isn't strong!"Unfortunately, the hardest part about comparisons is probably the most influential in the fight: location, location, location.  A fight over the ledge in a volcano that is the only way into the dragon's lair is a far different affair to defeat the red dragon that when you encounter one in the woods with its virtual pants down doing a #2.   <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" />So, this is what you do.  For each level you want to compare (notes below), (1) build a group of four PC's, PB25, standard wealth guidelines.  (2) Build 5 dragons of equivalent CR, of totally different types and strengths/weaknesses.  (3) Pick a locale that suits each dragon.  (4) If the PC's stomp each of the five dragons, then your case is made.  If not, then it's not.(1) That's what the CR's were based on.  Actually, it was all core, so use even that with a grain of salt.  I wouldn't restrict either the PCs or dragon to core, though.(2) This avoids the PC-build-tailor-made-to-a-red-dragon scenario that ALWAYS comes up in this comparison discussions.  That red dragon bane unholy weapon is a lot less effective against a sand dragon.(3) Of course.  The PCs are the heroes and need to GO TO THE DRAGON, not that other way around.  If you want to run it as a random encounter, well, that's just not correct.(4) Together with #3, you need to show the PC's are much better than the dragon across the board.  An optimized setup against one type of dragon will suck against others.  I will still say that any build you make of the party will be stacked against dragons, but that's NOT the way a normal party is made, so it's unfair.  And, note that a dragon of equal CR is only supposed to consume about 25% of the resources, so the heroes need to stomp it and stomp it good for the dragon not to be a decent power level for its CR.</blockquote>

Verification