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<blockquote data-quote="Xylix" data-source="post: 498597" data-attributes="member: 9089">I very much doubt a young black dragon would&nbsp; survive long enough to spit at a 10th level party....&nbsp;&nbsp; Much less be a challenge.&nbsp;&nbsp; At 19 AC a 10th level figther can easily land two blows (+10 / +5,&nbsp; ~+4 str, +Focus,&nbsp; +2 weapon = ~ +17 / + 12 attacks)Dealing an easy 13 or so damage a hit.&nbsp; Against those 85 hp the dragons have two fighters can wipe it out in two rounds like cutting mincemeat.&nbsp; That is without the aid of anyother support, which would likely be there...On the other side fighers can easily have 24 AC and take only around,&nbsp; 6 or so damage a round.&nbsp; At the same time the fighers should be toting at least 65 hp...These numbers are guesses, but they aren't far off from potential reality.&nbsp; This is assuming basic tactics on the warrior's part.Hover would do very little good, a DC 15 concentration check for a 10th level wizard should ALWAYS be a success.At this point the dragon has very little in the way of special abilities, virtually guarnetting utter player domincance over it.6 is probably a better measurement, as 9 is equally to high.A OLD dragon can do far more things.&nbsp; A young black dragon is not much better off than the fire giant.&nbsp; Infact, in ranged comabat the Giant is better with its ability to attack multiple times per a round.It is not a question of 'SEEM' in this case.&nbsp; It is quite blatent a 10th level party would not expend 10% of their resources killing a Young Black dragon.The reason things are silly at low levels is because the fact the many things increase linearly.&nbsp; Most importanly are&nbsp; Attack bonuses, and HP, which quickly go from the point of 10-30% hit chance to overkill, and HP which increases by 100%, then 50% in two levels.Against strong attackers, with decent AC, who wont miss the effects are dramatic.&nbsp; Until higher levels most heavy strength physical attackers are way underated in their CR, because the makers failed to account for the super high damage potential of these creatures.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Xylix, post: 498597, member: 9089"] I very much doubt a young black dragon would survive long enough to spit at a 10th level party.... Much less be a challenge. At 19 AC a 10th level figther can easily land two blows (+10 / +5, ~+4 str, +Focus, +2 weapon = ~ +17 / + 12 attacks) Dealing an easy 13 or so damage a hit. Against those 85 hp the dragons have two fighters can wipe it out in two rounds like cutting mincemeat. That is without the aid of anyother support, which would likely be there... On the other side fighers can easily have 24 AC and take only around, 6 or so damage a round. At the same time the fighers should be toting at least 65 hp... These numbers are guesses, but they aren't far off from potential reality. This is assuming basic tactics on the warrior's part. Hover would do very little good, a DC 15 concentration check for a 10th level wizard should ALWAYS be a success. At this point the dragon has very little in the way of special abilities, virtually guarnetting utter player domincance over it. 6 is probably a better measurement, as 9 is equally to high. A OLD dragon can do far more things. A young black dragon is not much better off than the fire giant. Infact, in ranged comabat the Giant is better with its ability to attack multiple times per a round. It is not a question of 'SEEM' in this case. It is quite blatent a 10th level party would not expend 10% of their resources killing a Young Black dragon. The reason things are silly at low levels is because the fact the many things increase linearly. Most importanly are Attack bonuses, and HP, which quickly go from the point of 10-30% hit chance to overkill, and HP which increases by 100%, then 50% in two levels. Against strong attackers, with decent AC, who wont miss the effects are dramatic. Until higher levels most heavy strength physical attackers are way underated in their CR, because the makers failed to account for the super high damage potential of these creatures. [/QUOTE]

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