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<blockquote data-quote="Xylix" data-source="post: 500770" data-attributes="member: 9089">To a certain degree this is true, especially at the higher levels where the damage of the breath weapon is dominant.However, in this particular point the same HD red dragon and black have a differance in raw PHYSICAL damage infliction rate of 72%, that is ignoring attack bonus, which the red also has the advantage with +2 greater to attack.This makes them nearly 100% more effective in raw melee combat at eliminating enemies.&nbsp; Your systems fails to take into account these jumping variations.&nbsp;&nbsp; I would probably add an additional modifier to your CR's taking into account the dragon size as well, because it does have an impact on the creatures power.Next, your system does not quite take into the account the power of epic characters.&nbsp; Epic characters are DEVESTATINGHere is an example of a guess work Epic 44th level figher, which should not be able to beat a Great Wyrm red dragon according to your system...Simple 44th lv FighterHP:&nbsp; ~638~+51 / +46 / +41 / +36 attackDmg :&nbsp; ~1d8 +20&nbsp; (crit 15-20,&nbsp; x2)AC:&nbsp; ~40Saves:&nbsp; ~+29 / +29 / +23However, a 44th level figher almost IS a red dragon, ignoring the massive area damage.&nbsp; This is not including feats, a couple things like fast healing, damage reduction, energy resistance,&nbsp; or non + magic items could suddenly push the figher above such a red dragon.Unless you are keeping with NPC lv = CR this is not good.CR for the high creatures probably need to dip some.&nbsp; Keep in mind at 44th level that the SR of the dragon is now useless, so its it's AC.&nbsp; It certainly isn't a CR 25 encounter, but it probably is a CR 3X encounter.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Xylix, post: 500770, member: 9089"] To a certain degree this is true, especially at the higher levels where the damage of the breath weapon is dominant. However, in this particular point the same HD red dragon and black have a differance in raw PHYSICAL damage infliction rate of 72%, that is ignoring attack bonus, which the red also has the advantage with +2 greater to attack. This makes them nearly 100% more effective in raw melee combat at eliminating enemies. Your systems fails to take into account these jumping variations. I would probably add an additional modifier to your CR's taking into account the dragon size as well, because it does have an impact on the creatures power. Next, your system does not quite take into the account the power of epic characters. Epic characters are DEVESTATING Here is an example of a guess work Epic 44th level figher, which should not be able to beat a Great Wyrm red dragon according to your system... Simple 44th lv Fighter HP: ~638 ~+51 / +46 / +41 / +36 attack Dmg : ~1d8 +20 (crit 15-20, x2) AC: ~40 Saves: ~+29 / +29 / +23 However, a 44th level figher almost IS a red dragon, ignoring the massive area damage. This is not including feats, a couple things like fast healing, damage reduction, energy resistance, or non + magic items could suddenly push the figher above such a red dragon. Unless you are keeping with NPC lv = CR this is not good. CR for the high creatures probably need to dip some. Keep in mind at 44th level that the SR of the dragon is now useless, so its it's AC. It certainly isn't a CR 25 encounter, but it probably is a CR 3X encounter. [/QUOTE]

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