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<blockquote data-quote="Radiating Gnome" data-source="post: 413465" data-attributes="member: 150">Actually, the forumla was 10+ Sl + CL, so the DC for a 9th level spell would be 39.&nbsp; For a 20th level caster,&nbsp; that's not exactly a cakewalk.&nbsp; In a system where we resist drain with a skill, she could have 23 ranks, an attribute bonus of, say, +5, before any magical items.&nbsp; That's 28, so the test would still fail on a roll of 10 or less, so still a 50-50ish.&nbsp; But a 20th level caster is going to have some pretty good items to buff that, so, you're right, it still isn't quite challenging enough.As a Will save, the 20th level caster would have a save of +12 for class levels, and another 5 for Wisdom bonuses, that's +17.&nbsp; even on a 20 thats on'y 37, not quite enough.&nbsp; He would require some sort of magical or feat-based assistance to resist that drain.&nbsp; Assuming he could scrape together another +10 in magic items, he's still going to only resist the drain on a roll of12 or better.But Looking at it at these high levels does highlight the real problem here -- the all or nothing stuff.&nbsp; The system might work a lot better using the save to resist drain as a save to take Half drain, rather than reduce it to one point.&nbsp; In that case, our 20th level caster would still be faced with taking 19 points of subdual damage for casting that spell.&nbsp; Assuming he has an average of 4 hp per level, he might be able to cast four of those if he made all his saves before risking collapse, and that's without casting any other spells.&nbsp; A first level caster, casting a first level spell at a caster level of one would still be saving to take one point of drain rather than two.&nbsp; At first level, that would be significant.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Radiating Gnome, post: 413465, member: 150"] Actually, the forumla was 10+ Sl + CL, so the DC for a 9th level spell would be 39. For a 20th level caster, that's not exactly a cakewalk. In a system where we resist drain with a skill, she could have 23 ranks, an attribute bonus of, say, +5, before any magical items. That's 28, so the test would still fail on a roll of 10 or less, so still a 50-50ish. But a 20th level caster is going to have some pretty good items to buff that, so, you're right, it still isn't quite challenging enough. As a Will save, the 20th level caster would have a save of +12 for class levels, and another 5 for Wisdom bonuses, that's +17. even on a 20 thats on'y 37, not quite enough. He would require some sort of magical or feat-based assistance to resist that drain. Assuming he could scrape together another +10 in magic items, he's still going to only resist the drain on a roll of12 or better. But Looking at it at these high levels does highlight the real problem here -- the all or nothing stuff. The system might work a lot better using the save to resist drain as a save to take Half drain, rather than reduce it to one point. In that case, our 20th level caster would still be faced with taking 19 points of subdual damage for casting that spell. Assuming he has an average of 4 hp per level, he might be able to cast four of those if he made all his saves before risking collapse, and that's without casting any other spells. A first level caster, casting a first level spell at a caster level of one would still be saving to take one point of drain rather than two. At first level, that would be significant. [/QUOTE]

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