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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 9441342" data-attributes="member: 18">No, I want heroic fantasy gods for a heroic fantasy game, just like Matt said you need heroic fantasy classes for a heroic fantasy game.The issue to me, is that Matt doesn't seem to understand that the "normal" gods he's describing are potentially as or more dangerous and as or more oppressive than the "evil" god he described.It's fine to have oppressive or dangerous gods, but you, as a setting-designer, need to show you understand that they are. Do you get that? Like, if you put "Throknar the Child-Burner" as one of the gods of your setting, you, as the designer, need to be aware burning children is a bad thing! But Matt seems to not realize that celebrating physical labour and literally devaluing and distrusting people who aren't good at it, or actively working to suppress the transmission of knowledge and blaming the transmission of knowledge for disasters large and small are not good things! They are in fact largely bad things!He realizes that might-makes-right is a bad thing, but not oppressive attitudes to knowledge?I should note he did describe a couple of other "normal" gods, and they both seemed fine, and more thought-through, so I haven't talked about them here.You're entirely missing the point, and I can't tell if you genuinely don't understand, if I'm just explaining really poorly (or so verbosely you're not reading it), in which case, sorry, or if you're intentionally being obtuse (hopefully not).The problem isn't celebrating stuff some people lack. That's fine. I explicitly said so and gave an example with they Physical Labour god. You could very easily make him basically positive. Instead of having him think physical labour capability == truthfulness and goodness, and anyone who can't/won't do it should be distrusted, you could have him think physical labour capability == coolness and awesomeness, and that it should be used to help people who can't/won't do physical labour to exalt this god and show how cool he is.I don't see any easy way to spin Knowledge Gestapo fully positively, but also he's not an "-ist" god, he's oppressive in a different way - i.e. that the suppression of widespread knowledge of how to do things is good. The most positive spin could be that his followers/church ensured knowledge got to where it could help, but also tried to prevent too much knowledge just "floating around". Not great, because it's anti-education and so on, but at least it's got a cool "illuminati trying to help/control the world's development" deal.This is supposed to be heroic fantasy, not dark fantasy - everyday gods shouldn't be oppressive or creepy in heroic fantasy - that's the role for creepy gods like Nekros.</blockquote>

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