Dread Wraiths, Con Drain, and HP

[cutup]

Hey all,

Does a dread wraiths con damage subtract from the total hit points (off the top) or from the current hit points. For example, Tordek is 8th level, has 50 hp/60 total and a con of 16. The dread wraith hits him with its incorporeal touch attack and does 14 hp of damage (bringing him down to 36hp). Tordek fails his fortitude save and takes 4 con damage (bringing his con down to 12 ). The 16 HP he loses (1/level*2 bonus lost) is that off of his maximum hit points (bringing his max down to 46) or is that in addition to his current hit points (bringing his current hit points to 20) or both?

Thanks for the help.

Cutup

 

[Rystil Arden]

He loses maximum and current. Same (but in reverse) as if you cast Bear's Endurance on him when he's at 60/60 and he is suddenly at 76/76.

 

[Pyrex]

This is why you shouldn't track how many HP you have left but rather track how much damage you've taken.

It results in *much* less math when your Con changes...

In the above:

Tordek the 8th level Ftr with 50hp. (0 damage // 50hp)

Takes 10 damage (10 damage // 50hp).

Takes 4 Con damage (10 damage // 34hp).

Takes 20 more damage (30 damage // 34hp)

Recieves a Lesser Restoration for +2 Con (30 damage // 42hp)

Takes 15 more damage (45 // 42hp) and bleeding out at -3.

Recieves another Lesser Restoration for +2 Con (45 damage // 50hp) and regains consciousness.

 

[frankthedm]

Recieves another Lesser Restoration for +2 Con (45 damage // 50hp) and regains consciousness.

Actually, no. Because the wording, it really does require healing to get out of the dying condition. Con boosts and temporary HP won't help until a heal check or magical healing is also administered.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#dying1to9HitPoints

Now chances are wotc means anything that 'raised HP' when they said 'healing', but it is amusing to point out.

 

[Pyrex]

While I suppose an overly strict reading of the rules could lead to that interpretation, I would say that since, by definition, the Dying condition is only imposed when you have between -1 and -9hp; that any state change that brings you out of that range would also remove the Dying condition.

 

[frankthedm]

While I suppose an overly strict reading of the rules could lead to that interpretation, I would say that since, by definition, the Dying condition is only imposed when you have between -1 and -9hp; that any state change that brings you out of that range would also remove the Dying condition.

Thats what I said they probably meant. What they said was

If any sort of healing cures the dying character of even 1 point of damage, he stops losing hit points and becomes stable.

Healing that raises the dying character’s hit points to 0 makes him conscious and disabled. Healing that raises his hit points to 1 or more makes him fully functional again, just as if he’d never been reduced to 0 or lower. A spellcaster retains the spellcasting capability she had before dropping below 0 hit points.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Thats what I said they probably meant. What they said was

If I'm not mistaken (which I'm not), Lesser Restoration IS a Conjuration (Healing) spell, is it not?

 

[Pyrex]

If I'm not mistaken (which I'm not), Lesser Restoration IS a Conjuration (Healing) spell, is it not?

It is indeed a Conjuration(Healing) spell, but it doesn't actually heal any HP, only ability damage.

The problem still stands if you if you remove a Bestow Curse (-6 Con) with a Remove Curse (Abjuration) though.

 

[kreynolds]

While I suppose an overly strict reading of the rules could lead to that interpretation, I would say that since, by definition, the Dying condition is only imposed when you have between -1 and -9hp; that any state change that brings you out of that range would also remove the Dying condition.

Yeah, I'm definately going with you on this one. Here's my voting card.

 

[Artoomis]

It is indeed a Conjuration(Healing) spell, but it doesn't actually heal any HP, only ability damage.

The problem still stands if you if you remove a Bestow Curse (-6 Con) with a Remove Curse (Abjuration) though.

There is no problem. Nothing in the description of the "Dying" condition indicates that the listed solutions are the only possible "cures" for "Dying."

This, if you somhow gain hit points to take you to the point that you no longer meet the defintion of "Dying," you are not "Dying" any more.

Simple, eh? Follows the rules, too.