Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5339724" data-attributes="member: 4937">We've got modern day examples of this.&nbsp; We don't have to guess at the motivations of easter islanders.Take a google maps view of Haiti and focus on the border with the Dominican Republic.&nbsp; Notice the absense of trees on the Haiti side of the map.&nbsp; Notice that its the same island, but that the DR is heavily forested and Haiti is virtually denuded.&nbsp; In time, if the current trend continues, there will be no trees on the Haitian side.The reason isn't anything esoteric.&nbsp; It's that wood is being used for cooking on the Haitian side.&nbsp; People need fires to cook.&nbsp; If they can't cook, they might starve.&nbsp; One falacy you here today is that technology is bad for the environment.&nbsp; Actually almost the opposite is true.&nbsp; There is no way the environmental impact of 6 billion humans would be as low as it is without the use of technology.&nbsp; What you can get into in a social collapse is a situation where the technology necessary to support the community at a certain level begins to successively unravel, with each implosion triggering an increased consumption of resources that in term makes the basis of the lower level technology unravel.&nbsp; Eventually a community that prosperously supported itself at some level on some peice of land eats everything down to the insects on the same peice of land and still can't feed itself.&nbsp; It happened on Easter Island.&nbsp; It happened on Greenland.&nbsp; It apparantly happened with the Mayans.It's highly likely that construction was just once of the uses wood was being put to.&nbsp; It's highly likely that the last phase of construction occurred when the island was near an economic zenith and heavily populated.&nbsp; They just didn't see the collapse coming.&nbsp; The last trees probably were protected.&nbsp; But trees weren't meant to be alone.&nbsp; Some may have died from disease or old age.&nbsp; Without a forest community, trees would have suffered from erosion and wind both of which could have uprooted hem.&nbsp; There was also likely to be 'poaching' of wood resources dwindled.&nbsp; With the community in crisis and people dying, they probably couldn't have organized a replanting effort to increase the natural rate of reforestation and with similar ecological crisis breaking out in the reefs with collapse of shellfish and fish diversity from over harvesting the whole community just probably imploded and people weren't thinking much beyond their next meal.&nbsp; Starving people are like that, no matter how much 'common sense' they have.&nbsp; By the end of the generation of collapse, they can barely imagine a tree.&nbsp; The last trees were probably woody shrubs that were cut down for the meager fire they would have provided.&nbsp; Then, the long dark night.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 5339724, member: 4937"] We've got modern day examples of this. We don't have to guess at the motivations of easter islanders. Take a google maps view of Haiti and focus on the border with the Dominican Republic. Notice the absense of trees on the Haiti side of the map. Notice that its the same island, but that the DR is heavily forested and Haiti is virtually denuded. In time, if the current trend continues, there will be no trees on the Haitian side. The reason isn't anything esoteric. It's that wood is being used for cooking on the Haitian side. People need fires to cook. If they can't cook, they might starve. One falacy you here today is that technology is bad for the environment. Actually almost the opposite is true. There is no way the environmental impact of 6 billion humans would be as low as it is without the use of technology. What you can get into in a social collapse is a situation where the technology necessary to support the community at a certain level begins to successively unravel, with each implosion triggering an increased consumption of resources that in term makes the basis of the lower level technology unravel. Eventually a community that prosperously supported itself at some level on some peice of land eats everything down to the insects on the same peice of land and still can't feed itself. It happened on Easter Island. It happened on Greenland. It apparantly happened with the Mayans. It's highly likely that construction was just once of the uses wood was being put to. It's highly likely that the last phase of construction occurred when the island was near an economic zenith and heavily populated. They just didn't see the collapse coming. The last trees probably were protected. But trees weren't meant to be alone. Some may have died from disease or old age. Without a forest community, trees would have suffered from erosion and wind both of which could have uprooted hem. There was also likely to be 'poaching' of wood resources dwindled. With the community in crisis and people dying, they probably couldn't have organized a replanting effort to increase the natural rate of reforestation and with similar ecological crisis breaking out in the reefs with collapse of shellfish and fish diversity from over harvesting the whole community just probably imploded and people weren't thinking much beyond their next meal. Starving people are like that, no matter how much 'common sense' they have. By the end of the generation of collapse, they can barely imagine a tree. The last trees were probably woody shrubs that were cut down for the meager fire they would have provided. Then, the long dark night. [/QUOTE]

Verification