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<blockquote data-quote="Argyle King" data-source="post: 6087741" data-attributes="member: 58416">Maybe I'm the odd man out here, but I find it difficult to have one without the other.&nbsp; Ideally -for me- story is what happens on the macro level.&nbsp; The story might be that the adventuring group is on a quest to defeat The Dark Lord Murgle, he who mumbles in shadows.&nbsp; At the same time, narrative is what happens when zoomed in to a smaller level; as if putting a magnifying glass on part of the story.&nbsp; The story might still be that the adventuring group is on a quest to defeat The Dark Lord Murgle, he who mumbles in shadows; simultaneously, the narrative might also be that Sir Tide, Knight Commander of the White Nights of Law &amp; Order SVU, had his wife slain by Lord Murgle, and now he struggles with a personal conflict between the code he is sworn to uphold by lawfully apprehending Lord Murgle and the emotional impulse he feels to slay him on sight.Personally, I find that D&amp;D can do this well at certain levels.&nbsp; The exact levels are going to vary depending upon edition.&nbsp; However, if I want to get more in depth with both narrative and story, I believe I am better served by games which aren't D&amp;D.&nbsp; I say that because I believe metagame concerns such as level, expected items/wealth by level, XP budgets, and various other things are sometimes at odds with story and narrative concerns.&nbsp; I might think the narratively cool magic item or power is awesome, but, if I'm forced to choose between that and a magic sword which I need to have for my character to be able to function, I -unfortunately- feel compelled to go with the second option.&nbsp; I also find that other games have views on morality and ways to illustrate personality quirks which are far more satisfying and lend themselves far better to story and narrative than the concept of D&amp;D alignment does.&nbsp; &nbsp; Though, there is also a different meaning to 'narrative play' that I've seen in other discussions, and it involves doing what is &quot;right&quot; considering the normal tropes of the genre.&nbsp; For that particular style, it has been put forward by others that D&amp;D 4E is especially good.&nbsp; I'm not sure that I'm convinced one way or the other, but I would say it (4E) leans more easily toward that than the style that I tend to gravitate toward.&nbsp; Though, that's not meant to suggest I don't enjoy it; I do, it simply has a different focus than I would by default.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Argyle King, post: 6087741, member: 58416"] Maybe I'm the odd man out here, but I find it difficult to have one without the other. Ideally -for me- story is what happens on the macro level. The story might be that the adventuring group is on a quest to defeat The Dark Lord Murgle, he who mumbles in shadows. At the same time, narrative is what happens when zoomed in to a smaller level; as if putting a magnifying glass on part of the story. The story might still be that the adventuring group is on a quest to defeat The Dark Lord Murgle, he who mumbles in shadows; simultaneously, the narrative might also be that Sir Tide, Knight Commander of the White Nights of Law & Order SVU, had his wife slain by Lord Murgle, and now he struggles with a personal conflict between the code he is sworn to uphold by lawfully apprehending Lord Murgle and the emotional impulse he feels to slay him on sight. Personally, I find that D&D can do this well at certain levels. The exact levels are going to vary depending upon edition. However, if I want to get more in depth with both narrative and story, I believe I am better served by games which aren't D&D. I say that because I believe metagame concerns such as level, expected items/wealth by level, XP budgets, and various other things are sometimes at odds with story and narrative concerns. I might think the narratively cool magic item or power is awesome, but, if I'm forced to choose between that and a magic sword which I need to have for my character to be able to function, I -unfortunately- feel compelled to go with the second option. I also find that other games have views on morality and ways to illustrate personality quirks which are far more satisfying and lend themselves far better to story and narrative than the concept of D&D alignment does. Though, there is also a different meaning to 'narrative play' that I've seen in other discussions, and it involves doing what is "right" considering the normal tropes of the genre. For that particular style, it has been put forward by others that D&D 4E is especially good. I'm not sure that I'm convinced one way or the other, but I would say it (4E) leans more easily toward that than the style that I tend to gravitate toward. Though, that's not meant to suggest I don't enjoy it; I do, it simply has a different focus than I would by default. [/QUOTE]

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