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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 7309051" data-attributes="member: 6801845">The point of &quot;surrender or die&quot; is that there's always the option to choose the latter.&nbsp; It might take half a minute (in world time) in 5E, but it can be done.There are spells that would accomplish this as well.&nbsp; A cabal of high level evil wizards could cast mass suggestion enough times to guarantee that everyone fails (you could probably do something to lower saves as well).&nbsp; Box everyone in a force cage, polymorph them all into slugs etc.I agree with the &quot;should&quot;.&nbsp; If you're going to do this you might as well do &quot;you wake up in the morning in a cold, damp cell with no memory of the night before&quot;.&nbsp; Deus ex DM style.&nbsp; It would be upsetting to some players, others would go along with it if the story was worth it.I also had this happen once, except the big bad had a badly wounded PC incapacitated with a special cursed knife (they knew the knife basically disintegrated people, and resurrection doesn't work in my world). They still attacked.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 7309051, member: 6801845"] The point of "surrender or die" is that there's always the option to choose the latter. It might take half a minute (in world time) in 5E, but it can be done. There are spells that would accomplish this as well. A cabal of high level evil wizards could cast mass suggestion enough times to guarantee that everyone fails (you could probably do something to lower saves as well). Box everyone in a force cage, polymorph them all into slugs etc. I agree with the "should". If you're going to do this you might as well do "you wake up in the morning in a cold, damp cell with no memory of the night before". Deus ex DM style. It would be upsetting to some players, others would go along with it if the story was worth it. I also had this happen once, except the big bad had a badly wounded PC incapacitated with a special cursed knife (they knew the knife basically disintegrated people, and resurrection doesn't work in my world). They still attacked. [/QUOTE]

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