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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 2341669" data-attributes="member: 141">My background is probably influencing the way I see "Charisma."  I'm a priest in a Catholic religious community, and the notion of a "charism" is pretty well known in these circles.  It is the niche or knack or talent a community or an individual has; the things they do well.  The Dominicans are preachers, for example, and the Jesuits have the spiritual exercises.  You can think of it as the role of a base or prestige class; that's what a charism is.  Education can be a charism.  Thinking of "Charisma" as a kind of quantitative pool of an individual's charisms is thus quite natural to me; and their education or mental endowment (in a word, their intelligence) is included in the pool.The other thing is that a player's contribution to their character is best described, imho, as intelligence.  Since that is the player's role, it shouldn't be a character stat.  Aust Diamondew says that according to this reasoning, characters shouldn't have any mental stats, or physical ones for that matter.But that isn't right.  Players can't detect things in the game universe, but have to depend on the DMs description, which he gives if the characters make spot, listen and search checks, which are based on Wisdom.  Players don't resist a ghoul's paralysis- the character does, based on their fort saves.  What the characters do not do is make and execute plans of their own.  That is what the players do, and that is what I think is best captured by intelligence.Now, intelligence can also be used to refer to someone's mental talents, but talents are charisms, as I described above, and I argue they should be governed by Charisma.Oh, and Sadrik, I think it would be best to discuss your variant in a new thread.  I would be willing to argue here why it is better to drop Intelligence than Wisdom or Charisma, but I don't see the purpose of the thread as being as wide ranging as your post envisions.</blockquote>

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