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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mannahnin" data-source="post: 9543216" data-attributes="member: 7026594">Nah.  I've read all that, and I already caveated my earlier posts that I think Gary's accounts are a bit unreliable and that even the 1974 piece isn't a rock-solid lock for his account, but I don't read the pre-D&D evidence quite the same way you do.PBM Diplomacy was one of his gaming communities, and otherworld/fictional variants of Diplomacy were a popular part of that community, with Tolkien-based ones being among the most prominent, as I understand it, due to the popularity of the books.  Gary playing in Middle Earth-themed Diplomacy variants doesn't necessarily indicate serious Tolkien fandom.  The red dragon being based on Smaug is consistent with his expressed enjoyment of The Hobbit, and I would suggest that his invention of several more colors indicates a desire to create and riff on new ideas rather than a particular interest in fidelity to Tolkien or incorporating more of Tolkien's ideas into gaming.  Extrapolating new sub-species and applying pseudoscientific classifications to them, complete with Linnaean-style nomenclature, is very consistent with Anderson or Leiber-style application of scientific reasoning to mythical subjects.  Very different from Tolkien's aesthetic or approach.I'm not seeing any substantial similarity between the Noldor and the drow.  Physically or culturally. Kinslaying and a fall from power are very consistent with other pre-Tolkien sources Tolkien and Gary both drew from, like Irish and Welsh myth.  If the Noldor had black skin and/or a spider goddess, that'd be much more convincing.So the prose edda and poetic edda do distinguish between elves and dwarves, and they also and separately distinguish between lossalfar and dokkalfar.  Alfar translates to Elf.  Calling them elves isn't Gygax's idea.  That's standard in Norse myth and cosmology. Poul Anderson differentiates between elves and dwarves in his books, too, and he was drawing from Norse mythology and more directly interpreting it than Tolkien, who adapted/changed it more in his own work.The eddas are very vague about the appearance of the alfar.  The main distinction is that they're described as being "black as pitch", and that their deeds are also dark and terrible.  Lossalfar means white elves, but the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elf#Etymology" target="_blank">etymology indicates</a> that this may mean "beautiful elves" rather than "light elves".  And the reverse may also be true for the dokkalfar / svartalfar.  If we just look at the Eddas, Gary seems to dip much more directly from that well than Tolkien did.  Obviously Gary took the description literally (as did de Camp and Pratt, though thank you for pointing out that The Roaring Trumpet does call them dwarves).Tolkien didn't only base his elves on the Norse alfar, but also (and arguably moreso) on the Irish Tuatha de Danaan and the Welsh Tylwyth teg.  Both of which clearly contribute to the Tolkien elf concept and appearance.  Often taller and always more beautiful than humans, immortal, otherworldly and magical.  But able to intermarry and have relationships. And generally beneficent.  Tolkien has no equivalent to the dokkalfar in his world.  No race of black elves who are broadly evil and destructive.</blockquote>

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