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<blockquote data-quote="Felon" data-source="post: 3296640" data-attributes="member: 8158">Actually, you're digging your own grave here.+1 Skill point per HD for high Intelligence? Well, if it's a skill-centric character, like a rogue, ranger, scout, etc, then the drow is losing major skill points due to the +2 LA. A drow rogue will just break even at 18th level (16 levels of rogue, 2 of drow). Even a fighter loses out on 4 (plus whatever his unadjusted Int mod would be).+1 Ref Save and +2 Will save? Level adjustments cause characters to lose saving throw mods as well.Folks, level adjustments are extremely pernicious, and the designers just didn't do a good job of realizing that. The notion that a race should be charged a level adjustment simply because it has ability score bonuses that don't &quot;zero out&quot; is ridiculous. A hobgoblin fighter (+2 Dex, +2 Con, darkvision, little else) does not patently outclass a human or dwarven fighter, not even if it had +0 LA. If you're a warrior, LAs cost you attack progression and hit points.If you're a skill-user, LAs cost you a ton of skill points.If you're a spellcaster, LAs cost you spell progression.And here's the kicker: a +2 or +4 to an ability score really doesn't make up the difference. In most cases, it doesn't even cover the spread. Your 18 Int tiefling rogue is not more skilled than a 16 Int human or halfling rogue. Your 18 Con hobgoblin does not wind up with more HP than a 16 Con human. Not for a long, long time anyway.The approach taken with the gith races was pretty promising. They don't get a bunch of abilities up front like most races. They gain them as they advance. If racial benefits and the resulting &quot;shaft levels&quot; were spread out rather than front-loaded, it wouldn't be so painful. But it seems that the option of playing a monstrous character is intended to be unappealing.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Felon, post: 3296640, member: 8158"] Actually, you're digging your own grave here. +1 Skill point per HD for high Intelligence? Well, if it's a skill-centric character, like a rogue, ranger, scout, etc, then the drow is losing major skill points due to the +2 LA. A drow rogue will just break even at 18th level (16 levels of rogue, 2 of drow). Even a fighter loses out on 4 (plus whatever his unadjusted Int mod would be). +1 Ref Save and +2 Will save? Level adjustments cause characters to lose saving throw mods as well. Folks, level adjustments are extremely pernicious, and the designers just didn't do a good job of realizing that. The notion that a race should be charged a level adjustment simply because it has ability score bonuses that don't "zero out" is ridiculous. A hobgoblin fighter (+2 Dex, +2 Con, darkvision, little else) does not patently outclass a human or dwarven fighter, not even if it had +0 LA. If you're a warrior, LAs cost you attack progression and hit points. If you're a skill-user, LAs cost you a ton of skill points. If you're a spellcaster, LAs cost you spell progression. And here's the kicker: a +2 or +4 to an ability score really doesn't make up the difference. In most cases, it doesn't even cover the spread. Your 18 Int tiefling rogue is not more skilled than a 16 Int human or halfling rogue. Your 18 Con hobgoblin does not wind up with more HP than a 16 Con human. Not for a long, long time anyway. The approach taken with the gith races was pretty promising. They don't get a bunch of abilities up front like most races. They gain them as they advance. If racial benefits and the resulting "shaft levels" were spread out rather than front-loaded, it wouldn't be so painful. But it seems that the option of playing a monstrous character is intended to be unappealing. [/QUOTE]

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