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Message: <blockquote data-quote="(Psi)SeveredHead" data-source="post: 1184145" data-attributes="member: 1165">Average mind flayer CR 8. Their servants are usually grimlock rangers, with 2-5 levels of ranger (sometimes more), average CR 3-6.An inquisition of mind flayer could have 2 flayers and 4 grimlock Rgr 2 for an EL of 10. Note that the save DCs are pretty low if facing 10th-level opponents.The average flayer community has 200-2000 illithids, 10% of which have psion levels. To determine max level, say half of them are psion 1, half the previous number are psion 3, and so forth. I recommend using the 3.5 non-associated class system, even though you're using 3.0.(If you don't use psionics, replace with sorcerer.)It also has more than twice as many slaves, most of them grimlocks, ~10% have ranger levels, and another ~10% of slaves are prisoners who will be eaten (drow, kuo-toe, adventurers, and the like).The elder brain can produce brain golems if it thinks there will be trouble, but their CR is too high (see Fiend Folio) by up to 4 points. I'm not kidding. Also, if you have FF, maybe use cranium rats, but their CR is 1-2 points too low <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Illithid clerics or spirituels (Mindscapes), not regular psions or sorcerers, will be in charge of calling the cranium rats to the Prime Material Plane.If you have the PsiH also try intellect devourers. Their DR is supposed to be that high, BTW.Finally, the Elder Brain can manifest powers as a 20th-level psion, so his CR is at least 20.It boils down to how ambitious do you want to be. If you plan out the whole community the players can't possibly sneak in (elder brain can sense all within 2-5 miles of the community, unless they have nondetection or something simlar).IMO your players must be at least 9th-level (ECL 11) to have a chance, assuming they want to get to the innermost heart of a flayer city. This is because the city has three parts: an outer grimlock community, an inner flayer community with a hidden door (location provided by traitorous mind flayer), and the innermost core is not directly connected to the rest of the city, requiring teleport or maybe just dimension door.</blockquote>

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