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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DrSpunj" data-source="post: 1466892" data-attributes="member: 994">Thanks! I was very pleasantly surprised after reading through Unearthed Arcana and combining it with what I already liked from Monte's AU that most of our stumbling blocks had been fixed for us. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> I then simply broke down the various class attributes into categories and "levels of power" (like a BAB having Poor @ +1/2, Average @ +3/4 and Good @ +1). Building the Excel spreadsheet was the most time-consuming part. I really wish I knew how to make "cell menus" to clean it up a lot. Anyone? Anyone? Buehler? Buehler? <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> It's just what it sounds like, a class ability that increases with level to defend against attacks by adding to your AC, just the opposite of your BAB. There are, however, a lot of variations. In WoT, for instance, it doesn't stack with Armor, it's one or the other, so the values tend to be a bit higher. In others they do stack so the defense bonuses tend to be lower. Some give the Fighter a high defense bonus since he's a combat master, others give him a low bonus because he's trained to shrug off blows with his armor, not dancing around in combat to avoid them completely. Most everyone agrees a Monk should have a high (if not the best) defense bonus while Mages should get the least. The other classes fit somewhere in between.Me? I very much like the idea of a swashbuckler-type, unarmored Fighter. To get that I think I'm forced into making Armor & the Defense Bonus overlap insead of Stack. I like several things about this.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Most importantly, it allows the generation of two distinct Fighters, very similar to Monte's Unfettered & Warmain; the Swashbuckler/Duelist and the Turtle/Tank. The former is at least viable at low levels under this system.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Even the Tank gets some benefit if ambushed in camp when not in his/her armor and doesn't have the several requisite minutes to don it, hastily or normally.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> By using whichever one is better for any given situation, the Tank can benefit again when faced with incorporeal foes that ignore their Armor bonuses or when trying to avoid Touch attacks.</li> </ul>That third point has a caveat: Your Armor Check Penalty reduces your Defense Bonus. Why? Because otherwise the Tank gets the best of both worlds at all times. If you subtract the ACP from the Defense Bonus, then he's paying a real price to his Defense Bonus for the benefit of Armor and whatever magical enhancements it may offer.CRG has it again, but the basics are pretty simple. Basic Weapons only include a small handful of weapons. IDHMBIFOM but IIRC they're Quarterstaff, Club, Xbow and one or two others.If you want proficiency with any other weapon you have to get that "group". Some examples are Punching Weapons (Punching Dagger, Gauntlet), Spears, Polearms, Swords, etc. There are only two Exotic Weapon Proficiency groups in this system (I can't remember their names or distinctions, anyone wanna help here? I remember it being different than Monte's Heavy & Agile/Ranged grouping), and each of them give you potential access to a large variety of Exotic Weapons. I say potentially because you also need to have the Weapon Proficiency Group for similar weapons. For instance, to become proficient with the Dwarven Urgrosh you need to have the Axe & Spear groups (so you can use both ends) as well as one of the Exotic Weapon groups (so you can use it as a double weapon).The values on the Near-Core sheet are all mine. I made them up. I tried to think about relative worth between attributes and used existing Core Feats as guidelines (for instance, Dodge is effectively the same as +1 Defense, while Weapon Focus is a limited +1 BAB, and Great Fortitude/Iron Will/Lightning Reflexes give +2 to a single save, so the cost of a Combat Feat should be similar, etc.) but in essence I just played with them in several ways to get something I liked.You'll note with a bit of study they are all linear progressions. I like the fact that half again as many skill points cost half again as much, and twice as many skill points cost twice as much. Same with with BAB. Defense bonus seemed like it should be the same as BAB, IMO. Saves could arguably be less, but since you can't easily get below 0, 1 & 2 you'd have to increase all the other attribute values to make Saves worth less (not a big deal, but maybe not so intuitive for someone looking at the sheet for the first time).As I've said here and in the sheet itself I do not believe I've found the perfect values, and that's why I'm looking for feedback. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> I personally think one level of magic (half or full) is worth more than a single Combat feat (and the Core rules support that opinion since you can't buy any more than a single spell known or cast per day with a feat). I think a Combat feat is worth more than a General feat. Obviously the Mage Blade's (like a Bard's spell progression) spells readied & spells per day that I've labeled as "Half" should be worth less than the Magister (like a Wiz/Sor's spell progression) spells readied & per day that I've labeled "Full", even if you don't feel the cost for the former should be literally half of the cost for the latter.Absolutely, and if you come up with a different set of values for all the attributes that arrive at most classes being very close to the average values, PLEASE share them! I realize it's not going to be exact because of the default changes I've already implemented into the spreadsheet (like no more 2 SPs/lvl).Even if you can't, I'd be interested in your opinions (and anyone else's) on why one particular attribute should be valued more or less than another attribute.Realize, though, that I'm expecting the Fighter (and most other classes) to have to buy more proficiency groups (both Weapon & Armor) as their character level increases. So as I have set things up on my sheet the Fighter uses an average of 13.2 (I think) CBs from levels 2-20. That leaves him with nearly 16 CBs over 20 levels if every gets 14 CBs per level to distribute. That translates into 8 General feats (at a cost of 2 each) which can buy him 8 additional proficiency groups over and above the 2 Weapon & 2 Armor groups he starts with at 1st level. If that's where you want to spend your points, more power to you. You've got them.Most every other class works that way as well. Since the average for all classes came up at ~13+, it's better to round up to 14 to account for needing to buy extra proficiency groups as General Feats. You aren't going to have them at your early levels unless that's how you choose to spend your points. Again, more power to you (and your character concept!).Right! And then share them! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Thanks.DrSpunj</blockquote>

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