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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DrSpunj" data-source="post: 1512572" data-attributes="member: 994">Ah. Then I think you need to remove the line. All characters also get feats at 3rd, 6th, etc. but you don't talk about those, nor do you mention anything about the free Ability point increase all characters get every 4th level. Listing "Gain 1 feat" is very deceiving in this regard.Okay, just to make this easy/clean, would you mind editing your post up above to clarify this point and remove the "Gain 1 feat" thing?Well, I'll admit it might be a bit cleaner, but sometimes it just fits. Reflex saves are used to move out of the way of sudden effects. Making it a prereq for something like Evasion or Uncanny Dodge makes good sense to me. Same thing with Fort saves (how well can you shrug off or resist physical effects) and DR.Alright, and I agree (they should be separate chains). I'm still coming from a POV that combat-oriented abilities generally get more mileage than non-combat abilities. I realize that's somewhat campaign specific, but as I said earlier, D&D is a more combat-oriented system than some others out there. From that standpoint, Evasion just seems like it would be a Fighting-Ability chain to me.Well, they're reasonably close. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> I'll figure out a Barbarian for the first four levels to compare and we'll see how that stacks up against the Rogue you outlined. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Realize that you didn't pay for any extra Reflex save yet to balance out the loss of Trap Sense +1 at 4th level for a Core Rogue (and that ability also improves AC from traps). Point being you'd probably spend 2 of those 4 banked points back at level 3 to buy all three saves up by +1 if you aren't going to have a Trap Sense ability. OTOH, if you do make it it's own ability, you just spent those 4 points on it! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Right. I noticed that with my system as well. Only in a few case was it worth it and that was generally so you could get another ability nearly right away at level 2.Thanks.DrSpunj</blockquote>

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