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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DrSpunj" data-source="post: 1527557" data-attributes="member: 994">Ah! I think we're on the same page now. You're effectively just coming up with a different default for the magic system.By that I mean, I look at Core and have come to believe that Arcane magic is the baseline. Since any PC can multiclass into an Arcane spellusing class, it's available to everyone and it comes with the inherent penalty of Arcane Spell Failure from Armor & Shields. OTOH, anyone accessing Divine magic (and the ability to ignore ASF) is doing so through an intermediate agency (usually a deity) that requires worship, respect and/or behaviors in return.With that POV it seems "better" to me to leave ASF in and have feats like Armored Casting that remove some of it, or restrictions like Divine Training that abolish it entirely. That's certainly up for debate as I can easily see how you might prefer to have no ASF be the default but offer a restriction that imposes ASF to get back some points to spend elsewhere.The reason that approach doesn't appeal to me much is I'm not a big fan of flaw systems. Their relatively easy to abuse and with a freeform system like this it's that much easier. While it doesn't break the system it would be easy to spend 4 CBs on Half magic at 1st level, then take the ASF restriction you offer for -5 CBs and effectively gain a point overall. Furthermore, you could easily build a character like a Monk/Martial Artist/Oathsworn that doesn't use Armor or Shields much at all and now you've managed to gain 5 extra CBs and a Half level of magic advantage over anyone else. At least in Core when you multiclass from Monk to Sorcerer you lose out on your BAB, Saves, HD, etc. Here those opportunity costs may not be near as significant.I'm probably going to stick with these guidelines for magic:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Anyone who takes Magic casts spells with Verbal & Somatic components (plus any other Spell-specific Material/Focus/XP components) and suffers from Spell Failure</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Any of these things can be effectively overcome with the proper feats (such as Modify Spell, Athame, Bardic Casting, Armored Casting, Divine Training or Nature Training)</li> </ul>I think doing it this way prevents abuse, but I'd be happy to get some feedback pointing out how I'm wrong if I've missed something. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />If you flesh this idea out I'd love to see it, but at this point it's a level of granularity that I'm not sure is worth the work. A Paladin takes up the Code to worship, honor and respect his deity, alignment and/or cause. In return he gets a bunch of divine abilities (including no ASF with his magic). A Wizard can take up that Code, but it doesn't make too much sense to me that he'd then be able to use that single CB he got back to bump his SPs up for a single level, or push up his Fort save, improve his BAB a step, or whatever. The former makes a lot of roleplaying sense to me, that latter I'm just not seeing.Thanks.DrSpunj</blockquote>

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