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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DrSpunj" data-source="post: 1637279" data-attributes="member: 994">If it was an extra page/sheet I'd do it happily. And I could probably include a sheet with all the tables and text explaining what to do with them, but the separate spreadsheet I came up with and attached to this thread a couple pages back is spread over ~6 sheets of its own. I'm not a real Excel guru by any means. I know you can Hide some columns and sheets and stuff but I'm not that savvy. I'd rather make each file very straightforward and give my players multiple files than hand over one big file and confuse them with which sheets they have to pay attention to. YMMV, but it's easy enough to copy everything from the Spell spreadsheet into the Balance spreadsheet if you want to. Should work fine.Oh, except that...I need to fix that spreadsheet when I find some time. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/nervous.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":heh:" title="Nervous Laugh    :heh:" data-shortname=":heh:" /> It doesn't do any checking with your bonus spells to make sure you can actually cast spells of that level before adding in your bonus spells from your casting ability. This is most readily apparent when you have just a single level of Basic or Advanced Magic and enter an Ability score of 18. According to the numbers that are calculated you can cast a single spell of 2nd, 3rd & 4th levels! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" />  I'll work on it when I find some time and then post the updated sheet(s). I just need to make sure there aren't any levels in there where a bonus spell would actually allow you to cast the next higher level of spells like Core does with the Paladin & Ranger advancement. I don't think so but I haven't checked either.The easy answer is: because he doesn't have the points available until 5th level!The harder answer is, of course, more difficult. You can argue that the system of values I came up with should have been balanced to allow the Cleric to get all his Divine Casting abilities, 2 Domains and Turn Undead all at 1st level. You can say that, I'll just disagree with you. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />The Cleric is at either at the top of the class heap power-wise, or perhaps comes in just behind the Druid. I've seen the vast majority of people here at EN World agree with that statement in a multitude of threads more than not by a large margin. Either way, when attempting to bring all the classes more in line with each other using a system like this the Cleric was going to lose some things.Now, you can choose to rebalance the Cleric differently, of course, but I chose to drop the Fort save down to Average and trim away a few of his Proficiency groups. (Realize he also gets a single Martial Weapon Group--a bonus, but if you'd rather pick up Medium Armor Proficiency or Shield Proficiency be my guest!)Either way, because of the way the points worked out I was forced to wait until 5th level to give him his third class ability. He's supposed to get 2 Domains and Turn Undead at 1st level according to Core. Since Domains give you nifty abilities along with extra Spell Slots & Readied Spells each day I figured that was a no-brainer when compared to an ability that is only useful when the DM decides it is, and even then it may not be a good option to actually try. In a campaign with lots of low-level undead then it's easy enough to take Turn Undead at 1st level and wait on another Domain until later. If having 2 Domains and Turn Undead is very important to you at 1st level then figure out what other things you're going to give up. Your HD? A few Saves? Only Basic Magic? It may be easier/better to pick the 3rd ability up at 2nd level when you've already underspent by 3 points; then you only have to find 2 more, but you've only bought a d8 and Advanced Magic so it's still not straightforward.I admit that it gets tough, but the Druid & the Cleric get trimmed under this system because they are up there. The only way to give them all three abilities at 1st level along with pretty much everything else Core gives them is to use the Cleric as the new "standard" and adjust all the other classes accordingly. That's not a power upgrade I feel is necessary or willing to play with personally. <shrug>Good, I'm glad that's helpful. I wondered about putting it on one of the intro pages then basing all the calculations off that and pulling them into the class sheets. I didn't do it because I liked being able to use the horizontal split slider bar to keep the value table in view at the top while messing around down below.I know it would be far slicker if there were Cell Menus where you could only select between the 3 or 4 options for each Cell, but I don't know how to do that and haven't picked up the Excel for Dummies yet to figure it out. If anyone wanted to teach me how I'd be very interested... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Good to see you still working on this, both for ouini's sake if he's going to go with it and because I like to see a variety of potential options for people to pick from (since I know not everything is going to do things as I want to).Thanks.DrSpunj</blockquote>

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