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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DrSpunj" data-source="post: 1908191" data-attributes="member: 994">Thanks! It's been quite a bit of work off & on, but it's fun to sit and really try and take things apart to put them together again and see how the fit and compare with each other. I, too, have used it to see how a particular Core build stacks up and to evaluate other Core Classes and Prestige Classes for the more standard 3.5 game I play in. It's worked out surprisingly well in most cases.  Absolutely, but remembering specifics is a bit tough, it's mostly little things that we've just addressed quickly and moved on. Happily nothing has brought the game to screeching halt and we had to hash out what we were going to do. One thing that comes to mind is the Weapon Proficiency Groups. Through some discussion we came to realize that paying 3 CPs after 1st level to pick up a WPG is very costly. I like that effect, it's what I was working towards since I like to reward things you start with at level 1 (where WPGs only cost 1 CP <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />) but a couple WPGs stood out as not being worth paying for unless you wanted the Exotic weapons in those groups; namely, Crossbows and Thrown Weapons. Repeating Xbows as Martial Weapons are admittedly a fudge on my part when I specifically put things together because they seem less exotic to me than a Great Xbow and a Hand Xbow, but it seemed too costly to charge someone for the Simple WPG, then MWPG: Xbows, then the Exotic WPG just to fire a Hand Xbow. The MWPG: Thrown category only contained the Orcish Shotput, so it's not really worth taking unless you're going for Exotic Thrown weapons like the Chakram, Bola, Net, Shuriken, etc. Making someone pay for the Orcish Shotput along the way seemed like a penalty, and I don't like forcing people into choices like that. Remember, Options, not Restrictions! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> So just recently we all agreed that we were moving the Repeating Xbows & Orcish Shotput up into the Exotic Xbow lists and dumping the MWPG Xbow & Thrown Weapons groups entirely. Now you just have to take Simple Weapons to first become proficient with basic things like darts, javelins and Lt. & Heavy Xbows, then by taking the Exotic WPG you get all the fancy/nifty things. This way no Martial WPGs are required at all, which is actually closer to Core where you can use a single feat to pick up any Exotic Weapon you want to wield. I hadn't initially addressed which ability was relevant for which types of casters, and what types of spell components they had (Verbal, Somatic, Material, Focus, etc.) so that was another thing we had to address. I stayed very close to the Core & AU classes as written, but the Restriction you put on Divine-like Casters for not having to deal with Armor Spell Failure really needs to be something important, IMO. I don't mean a penalty necessarily, but something that the player really has to stay conscious of for his PC. Videssian is currently playing a Priest of Tinel (God of Magic & Secrets from Book of the Righteous) so he took Divine Training and therefore he doesn't have to worry about Somatic components for his spells & therefore no ASF. He's basically otherwise building the PC as a Magister/Wizard though, so he really does play better than (and is more powerful) than an AU Magister (who has to have his staff) or a Core Wizard (who doesn't cast spontaneously and has a spellbook), both of whom *DO* have Somatic spell components and have to worry about ASF. Now, because of his Divine Training all of his PC's magical ability is granted from his deity Tinel, so if I don't make sure (as the DM) he sticks to Tinel's teachings, belief, ethos, etc., then I've just given him a nice power boost over all the other players. To help remind him and me of that Restriction I've typed up what is required/expected of his PC's behavior based upon the teachings & worship of his deity. I'm going to work on something similar with another player who's PC is going to be picking up Nature Training for Nature Magic next level. He's going for a Druid without the Animal Companion and Wildshaping features, more martial, essentially what I'm picturing as a Nature-based Paladin but with more spellcasting capability. While we're starting with the Druidic Oath/Guidelines laid out in the PHB I've asked him to come up with what's most important for his PC, what he wants to accomplish with Nature's Power & Magic. I hope to use that to develop a similar set of guidelines for his Nature Restriction as I did for Videssian's PC above. Finally, ouini, never one to take something at face value <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />, has come up with a Nature-based Monk type that doesn't rely so much on speed (both in the sense of FoB and base mvmt speed) and nimbleness as it does being able to "plant" himself, withstand lots of punishment, and hit solidly with just a few well-placed blows, emulating many aspects of Treants, Ents, etc. Working with him was more an exercise on how to incorporate what is essentially a Prestige Class (even though he's starting it at 1st level) into the existing Feat-based framework. We started with him explaining his concept to me, and from there I had to decide which abilities he'd have to use feats already in the system to get for his PC, and which others we'd have to come up with new feats entirely (as well as where to put them, with appropriate prereqs). What I was trying to avoid was a true duplication of effects. Some of the things he was after were really in the system already, though some had prereqs that weren't easy to mesh with his concept. I *think* we've figured out where best to use the system and where to add to it. I think we're both happy with the results, but I'll let him answer any more specifically as he sees fit.  How's all that for starters? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> I'm sure there are other issues. I'll probably think of some more once I have to chance to ponder things, and I'll bet my players can list a few others or job my memory. I'll keep checking back and see what's been posted.  I've asked my players to come by and post. We'll see how many comments (and of what type) we get <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />). I've been asking them as we go, and we've had some ongoing discussions on a few things on our messageboard, but I always welcome more input. Thanks. DrSpunj</blockquote>

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