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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 1147223" data-attributes="member: 2629">The alter self description says that your hit points do not change. Period. No conditions. No exceptions. Your hit points remain the same. This statement overwrites the normal rules for calculating hit points. A change in con therefor has no effect on your hit points because NOTHING about the alter self spell will change your hit points. Polymorph incorporates this clause by reference.You are presuming that everything 'descends' from class and level. First, there is no basis for this argument beyond pure supposition. You're reading an intent into the words that is not present on the face of the text. Secondly, the things following 'class and level' do not all derive from class and level: How is alignment a function of class and level? You're reading things into the spell that do not exist. Class and level are a part of the list, not a subject heading for the list. The inclusion of alignment in the list precludes that possibility. This list is a list of things that do not change. Hit points are included in that list. Therefor, hit points do not change. They are locked in so that the spell does not change them, regardless of any other rules.One of their goals in rewriting the PHB was to get more material into the book. To this end, they streamlined many sections of the text. This removed some redundant clarifying language. This seems to be one instance where that occurred. The language in alter self says that hit points do not change. Polymorph incorporates that language. Specifying that a change in con doesn't change HPs might be a nice clarifying statement, but it is not necessary as there is already a statement that hit points *do not change*.Once again: Alter self says that hit points do not change because of the spell. Polymorph incorporates this clause. Therefor, hit points remain the same. That sentence says that the sorcerer/paladin would retain his class, his level, his hit points, his alignment, his base attack bonus and his base save bonuses. It is important for balance reasons that hit points do not change. The spell becomes far too powerful if it can give a wizard 150 bonus hit points via a nameless con bonus. They made an effort to reign in the power of polymorph in 3.5. Why would they open the door for an incredible abuse?Think of it this way: There is a general rule that characters (without a natural fly speed) can not fly. This is the normal state of affairs. The fly spell gives characters the ability to fly. The fly changes the normal way that things operate in the game.There is a general rule that characters gain hit points when their constitution score rises enough to increase their constitution bonus. The alter self spell states that hit points do not change when the spell is used (no exceptions to this rule are given in the alter self spell). The alter self spell, by specifying that hit points do not change (with no exceptions given), changes the normal way that things operate in the game.You're free to run the game as you see fit. The rules, however, say that hit points do not change.</blockquote>

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