Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tilla the Hun (work)" data-source="post: 1159138" data-attributes="member: 14214">Rules mongrelsHeh - I thought as much.  Y'all seem to be reading quite a bit into some simplistic type things...For example, the relevant section of Alter Self:and the relevant section of Polymorph:Now for some points <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />1)  Notice that "alter self" does not change types of the caster2) Notice that "alter self" says "Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same."Base attack bonus, Base save bonus...  wonder why they said BASE?  Even though it states clearly that CON and STR can't change...3) Notice that both Alter Self AND Polymorph increase HIT DIE.  One up to 5 HD, the other up to a max of 15.4) Notice that Polymorph clearly indicates that CON changes.5) Also notice that you are actually changing FORMS (i.e. types) under polymorph.Now, if you recall, we wondered why Alter Self had stated 'base' in front of attack bonus and save bonus?  Because, quite simply, polymorph allows the modifiers to these to change with the changing str, con, and dex.  If the modifiers to these can change, then yes, the modifiers to 'hit points' should also change.I.E. Your hit points remain the same.  Your CON modifier to your hit points changes.  This can be both good and bad, if you think about it.I have not seen any other rule, ruling, clarification, errata, or just plain statement that would indicate that a gain in HD does not result in a gain in your attack modifiers, your save modifiers, and yes, your hit point modifiers.That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, necessarily.  I just haven't seen it and would love to see some reference to another instance like the one trying to be cited here.  In other words, can you find any other situation in which your CON changes and your hit points don't???All of that said, you can argue interpretations all week in saying that polymorph states "like alter self, except" for both sides of the arguement.  Or you can just take polymorph as a whole and apply the fact that no where else does a con increase NOT increase hit points!Personally, I think it nerfs quite a bit of polymorph to not let it change the hitpoints.  Also, it becomes a little silly if you have polymorphed a dragon into a rabbit that has 300 hitpoints...  and a CON of 5.I suspect that neither side will stop arguing - simply because it can be argued, and therefore 'should' be...  The rule's aren't perfect, and intrepretations occur.  Where intrepretations occur, you find the roots of lawyers.</blockquote>

Verification