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<blockquote data-quote="Redthistle" data-source="post: 7110795" data-attributes="member: 6778305">I'm working on getting this Circle feature more in line with the descriptions in Wild Shape, and find myself in need of other some feedback on what I'm working up.Primal FormAt 2nd level you do not gain wild shape. In place of wild shape, you gain the ability to use your bonus action to assume a form of primal power to enhance your combat abilities for 1 minute. The number of times you can assume a primal form is shown in the wild shape column of the Druid table in the Player’s Handbook.There is no Wild Shape column in the Druid Table. Instead, the feature states that you can transform 2 times, but once both transformations have been used, you need to take a short or long rest to regain the ability to transform. I'm thinking we should just use that language.In Wild Shape, the Beast Shapes table (re-labeled Primal Forms below) shows a real disconnect with changing into primal forms (I guess that's why [MENTION=6788732]cbwjm[/MENTION] called it a &quot;1st draft,&quot; eh?) of the Circle of the Warden. Primal FormsLevel&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Max. CR&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Limitations&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Example2nd&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1/4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; No fly or swim speed&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Wolf4th&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1/2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; No fly speed&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Crocodile8th&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; EagleNow, a hint of a direction to go shows up immediately in Form of Storm's Thunder (with a bit of added fluff inspired by the 4e class descriptions) below:Form of Storm’s Thunder Tendrils of mist drift around you, flickering with light, as faint rumbles of distant thunder emanate from your body.&nbsp; On your turn, when you hit with a melee attack, you deal an extra 1d6 thunder damage. This increases to a d8 at 5th level, d10 at 11th level, and a d12 at 17th level.Here, cbwjm added class-level specific increases to the damage in the spirit of cantrip-type increases, while keeping the increases lower than cantrip increases in keeping with other kinds of class/archetype features (nicely done, btw). I assume that those increases are class-specific, anyway.So, my questions become: 1) Should each of the forms gain similar class-level specific improvements? 2) I'd like to keep Storm's Thunder as cbwjm proposed it, but should the other forms gain improvements at the same levels as Storm's Thunder, or at the class levels as shown in the Beast Shapes table? Should any improvements be tied instead to the standard feature levels of the druid circles? 3) The improvements in Wild Shape come fairly quickly, starting at 2nd, then building up at 4th and 8th levels, tied to Maximum CR. Since the warden doesn't change into beasts, there are no Challenge Ratings to apply to the forms. Is there some other kind of level-balancing mechanism we can apply to form improvements?4) The druid/warden doesn't gain the benefits of having two sets of hit points (the PC's race/class and the beast-shape) or the beast's attacks, but it does have the benefit of being able to continue wielding weapons and casting spells while in Primal Form. That seems good enough to me. Are there other considerations I'm missing on this?&nbsp; 5) Is there some level where the druid/warden could gain the ability to manifest two (or more) primal forms at the same time?Below, I show the other three primal forms cbwjm proposed with added fluff taken straight from 4e, plus one level improvement I thought of for Form of Stone's Endurance.Form of the Avalanche UnleashedYou take on a resilient shell of rock and ice even as your presence on the battlefield slows your foes. &nbsp; You have resistance to cold. The area within 10 feet of you is considered difficult terrain by other creatures. On a successful melee attack, a target must make a Strength saving throw against your spell DC or be knocked prone.Form of Stone’s Endurance Your body becomes a fusion of flesh and rough stone, invigorated by your connection to the earth.&nbsp; When you assume a primal form, you gain resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage. &nbsp; Also, when you reach 8th level in this class, while in this primal form you can add your Constitution modifier to your AC.Form of the Sirocco A haze of sand surrounds you, protecting you from harm and letting you move like a blinding desert wind.&nbsp; While in your primal form, you increase your speed by 10 feet and you have advantage on Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks and Dexterity saving throws. When you use the attack action you can use your bonus action to make an extra attack.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Redthistle, post: 7110795, member: 6778305"] I'm working on getting this Circle feature more in line with the descriptions in Wild Shape, and find myself in need of other some feedback on what I'm working up. [B]Primal Form[/B] At 2nd level you do not gain wild shape. In place of wild shape, you gain the ability to use your bonus action to assume a form of primal power to enhance your combat abilities for 1 minute. [I]The number of times you can assume a primal form is shown in the wild shape column of the Druid table in the Player’s Handbook.[/I] There is no Wild Shape column in the Druid Table. Instead, the feature states that you can transform 2 times, but once both transformations have been used, you need to take a short or long rest to regain the ability to transform. I'm thinking we should just use that language. In Wild Shape, the Beast Shapes table (re-labeled Primal Forms below) shows a real disconnect with changing into primal forms (I guess that's why [MENTION=6788732]cbwjm[/MENTION] called it a "1st draft," eh?) of the Circle of the Warden. [B]Primal Forms[/B] Level Max. CR Limitations Example 2nd 1/4 No fly or swim speed Wolf 4th 1/2 No fly speed Crocodile 8th 1 - Eagle Now, a hint of a direction to go shows up immediately in [I]Form of Storm's Thunder[/I] (with a bit of added fluff inspired by the 4e class descriptions) below: [B]Form of Storm’s Thunder [/B] [I]Tendrils of mist drift around you, flickering with light, as faint rumbles of distant thunder emanate from your body.[/I] On your turn, when you hit with a melee attack, you deal an extra 1d6 thunder damage. This increases to a d8 at 5th level, d10 at 11th level, and a d12 at 17th level. Here, cbwjm added class-level specific increases to the damage in the spirit of cantrip-type increases, while keeping the increases lower than cantrip increases in keeping with other kinds of class/archetype features (nicely done, btw). I assume that those increases are class-specific, anyway. So, my questions become: 1) Should each of the forms gain similar class-level specific improvements? 2) I'd like to keep Storm's Thunder as cbwjm proposed it, but should the other forms gain improvements at the same levels as Storm's Thunder, or at the class levels as shown in the Beast Shapes table? Should any improvements be tied instead to the standard feature levels of the druid circles? 3) The improvements in Wild Shape come fairly quickly, starting at 2nd, then building up at 4th and 8th levels, tied to Maximum CR. Since the warden doesn't change into beasts, there are no Challenge Ratings to apply to the forms. Is there some other kind of level-balancing mechanism we can apply to form improvements? 4) The druid/warden doesn't gain the benefits of having two sets of hit points (the PC's race/class and the beast-shape) or the beast's attacks, but it does have the benefit of being able to continue wielding weapons and casting spells while in Primal Form. That seems good enough to me. Are there other considerations I'm missing on this? 5) Is there some level where the druid/warden could gain the ability to manifest two (or more) primal forms at the same time? Below, I show the other three primal forms cbwjm proposed with added fluff taken straight from 4e, plus one level improvement I thought of for [I]Form of Stone's Endurance[/I]. [B]Form of the Avalanche Unleashed[/B] [I]You take on a resilient shell of rock and ice even as your presence on the battlefield slows your foes. [/I] You have resistance to cold. The area within 10 feet of you is considered difficult terrain by other creatures. On a successful melee attack, a target must make a Strength saving throw against your spell DC or be knocked prone. [B]Form of Stone’s Endurance [/B] [I]Your body becomes a fusion of flesh and rough stone, invigorated by your connection to the earth.[/I] When you assume a primal form, you gain resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage. Also, when you reach 8th level in this class, while in this primal form you can add your Constitution modifier to your AC. [B]Form of the Sirocco [/B] [I]A haze of sand surrounds you, protecting you from harm and letting you move like a blinding desert wind.[/I] While in your primal form, you increase your speed by 10 feet and you have advantage on Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks and Dexterity saving throws. When you use the attack action you can use your bonus action to make an extra attack. [/QUOTE]

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