druid wildshape and templates on animals

[samocali]

Can a druid use wildshape to turn into an animal with a template? For example the Horrid template in the Eberron setting gives various enhancements to Dire animals and doesn't appear to change their type (like celestial). Could a druid who is familiar with the Horrid version of those animals wildshape into them?

 

[Caliban]

Can a druid use wildshape to turn into an animal with a template? For example the Horrid template in the Eberron setting gives various enhancements to Dire animals and doesn't appear to change their type (like celestial). Could a druid who is familiar with the Horrid version of those animals wildshape into them?

No templates. No advanced versions of creatures either.

 

[Tetsubo]

No templates. No advanced versions of creatures either.

I can sort of understand the No Template rule. But why no Advanced Animals? How is an Advanced 6 HD Wolf any better than a "normal" 6 HD Bear? What is the reasoning? If the character stays within the HD limit of the Wildshape ability, how can this become unbalanced?

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

No templates. No advanced versions of creatures either.

Although from a balance perspective I agree with this statement (druids are already pushing the envelope of broken), what rules support do you have for it? I don't know of anything that forbids it.

 

[samocali]

Although from a balance perspective I agree with this statement (druids are already pushing the envelope of broken), what rules support do you have for it? I don't know of anything that forbids it.

After caliban responded I looked into why and I noticed that alter self (which wildshape/polymorph are based on) specifically forbades templates. I'm not sure about the other restriction on improved forms though.

 

[Diirk]

You can freely designate the new form’s minor physical qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color) within the normal ranges for a creature of that kind. The new form’s significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new form’s kind. You are effectively disguised as an average member of the new form’s race.

Advanced animals aren't average members of the race. Hence, no advanced animals.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Why not just let the character(s) just take a feat called Advanced Wild Shape? They could Wild Shape into templated sort of creature that does not go over a +2 CR adjustment.

 

[Voodoo]

Advanced animals aren't average members of the race. Hence, no advanced animals.

However advancing existing animals in the MM is a good way of representing different races and species of animals. If we look at the Owl (1HD tiny advanced to 2HD Small) we can easily represent a barn owl and an eagle owl.

Whilst I would not allow free advancement to any number of HD I certainly would allow advancement within the advancement section of the animals stat block.