Dumathoin cleric prestige class

[Mjollnir]

Tell me what you think of this prestige class based on the dwarven deity Dumathoin. I inspired myself in "Faiths & Pantheons" as well as the old 2nd ed. "Demihuman Deities". Thanks for your comments.
TALHUND PRESTIGE CLASS

The Talhund or Specialty clerics of Dumathoin are jealous defenders of dwarven craftsmanship and crypts. They walk the silent underground areas of their homes ever alert of any intrusion or any attempt of thievery which they surely punish with a smashing force. They represent and preserve the beauty of Earth’s gifts (metals, gems,…) and encourage the perfection of this art in the forge or in the jewelry works.

Hit Dice: d8
Requirements
Patron: Dumathoin
Alignment: Lawful neutral, Neutral Good
Skills: Appraise 7 ranks, Craft (armorsmithing) 7 ranks, Craft (weaponsmithing) 7 ranks, Craft (Gemcutting) 7 ranks, Profession (Miner) 7 ranks.
Feats: Extra Turning
Race: Shield dwarves.
Spells: Ability to cast 3rd level divine spells.
Special:
Class Skills
The class skills (and the key ability scores of each) are Climb (Str); Concentration (Con); Craft (Int); Heal (Wis); Listen (Wis); Sense Motive(Wis); Spot (Wis);
Skill Points per Level: 2 + Int modifier
Class Features
Weapon and Armor

Lvl Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Spells per day
1 0 +2 0 +2 Mineral Detection, Rock Skin, Silence Aura +1 level of existing class
2 +1 +3 0 +3 Crafting Knowledge +1 level of existing class
3 +2 +3 +1 +3 Silence Casting, Rock Skin +1 level of existing class
4 +3 +4 +1 +4 Silence Aura +1 level of existing class
5 +3 +4 +1 +1 Dumathoin’s rest, Rock Skin +1 level of existing class
6 +4 +5 +2 +5 Crypt sense +1 level of existing class
7 +5 +5 +2 +5 Rock Skin +1 level of existing class
8 +6 +6 +2 +6 Silence Aura +1 level of existing class
9 +6 +6 +2 +6 Rock Skin +1 level of existing class
10 +7 +7 +3 +7 Tremor, Petrification immunity +1 level of existing class


Mineral Detection: Talhunds detect any kind of minerals and gems in the same way as a Paladin detects evil, but they can only do it once per day.
Rock Skin: Talhunds’ skin slowly turns to a rock type density. They Gain a +1 Natural Armor bonus in 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th level.
Crafting Knowledge: Talhunds gain the Skill focus feat in Craft (armorsmithing), Craft (weaponsmithing) , Craft (Gemcutting) and Profession (Miner) for free.
Silence Casting: Talhunds gain the Silent Spell feat for free.
Silence Aura: Talhunds crates a continuous aura of silence around her at will. From 1st to 3rd level is self- centered , from 4th to 7th level it has a 10 feet radius and from 8th to 10th has a 15 feet radius.
Dumathoin’s rest: Talhunds turns undead as a cleric of 4 levels higher.
Crypt sense: Talhunds detect any intrusion made in a pre-selected crypt oh her clan as long as she is within as many miles of distance as Talhunds total levels.
Tremor: Talhunds may hit the ground with their mauls to a shock wave effect as a full round action. When done it creates a cone of force on the ground as long (in a 5 feet distance) as his STR bonus plus his CON bonus plus the character’s total levels and with a width of his CHAR bonus (in a 5 feet distance as well). Foes on the line of this wave must succeed a Fort save against the dwarf’s total levels plus her WIS bonus plus her spell casting level (for example, a 7th level cleric/7th level Talhund with a 13 Strength, 14 Constitution, 19 Wisdom and 16 Charisma score could create a cone of 85 feet long (14 total levels + 1 Str bonus + 2 Con bonus x 5’ = 85 feet) and 15 feet wide (3 Char bonus x 5’ = 15 feet); enemies, on the other hand, should succeed a Fortitude save versus a DC of 25 (7th level cleric/7th level Talhund + 4 Wis bonus + 7 spell casting level = 25). This shows Talhunds empathy and knowledge of Earth.
Petrification immunity: Talhunds are totally immune to petrification.

 

[Chacal]

I also liked the 2nd ed Demi human deities and I think that
domains aren't giving the flexibility we had. I'm not sure that PrC will solve all the problems and sometimes It might be more usful to use variant base classes.

In Dumathoin case, that seems ok because it was a militant cleric (D8, all armors and weapons).
But it was very limited in spheres, and that was an important balancing factor.
I'm afraid that giving a PrC all the cleric progression (HD, saves, spells) which is considered by many a strong class,
and adding powers on top of it makes a really unbalanced PrC.
The silence ability is cool but IMO giving it at will is huge and makes this PrC a mage killer.

I would limit its use on a daily basis.
The way you calculate the DC for tremor is vastly superior to most abilities I know, by counting twice some of the levels.

I would add the following requirements : Stone Domain,
Diplomacy 5 ranks (They're decribed as negociators with other races)
and I don't think they need armor and weapon crafts as they're more guardians than artisans. YMMV.

As a way to balance the benefits, I will try the following restrictions :
they must prepare one stone or divination spell at every slot level.
Dumathoin didn't give turn undead in 2e, so I'm rather surprised to see it in this PrC, I would try to power some of the abilities by channeling, and removing the turn undead.

I know that these looks like drastics changes, but you did ask for comments

Chacal

 

[Mjollnir]

I may agree with the silence ability in a daily limit. On the other hand, remember Dumathoin is also the dwarven cleric of the dead, so specialty clerics should notice it in their powers, shouldn't they?

 

[Chacal]

On the other hand, remember Dumathoin is also the dwarven cleric of the dead, so specialty clerics should notice it in their powers, shouldn't they?

This wasn't part of its portfolio in 2nd Ed. They didn't have turn undead. I don't have faith And Pantheons so I didn't knew they added this.

I really think that this class is strictly superior to the cleric and that's not the way I would design a PrC.
If you want to follow this road, you might have to create a PrC for each priest that the players want to play, otherwise this doesn't look very fair.
Plus you would have to give significant power-ups to other classes.

Well, to each his own. Have fun !

Chacal

 

[Noldor Elf]

The PrC is too powerful, Rock skin by itself makes the PrC very appealing to a warrior cleric.

I would reconsider those prerequirement, because they mean that cleric should have pretty high int. 42 skill points (at minium, 35 if Cosmopolitan: Appraise feat) means that cleric has to have Int 14 to be able to qulify at 10th level.

I would suggest few changes:
- instead of full spell casting progression perhaps something like 2/3 levels, netting 3 level loss durign the 10 levels of Prc
- Another option could be based on that silence theme: disallow TALHUND to cast spells with verbal component. That would effectively decrease their caster level by 2 when determining possible spells (because of silent spell)
- Make use of silence aura to spent one of clerics turning attemps per day, it should restric it nicely
- Spread that Crafting Knowledge over the Prc, like one skill focus at 2nd, 4th, 6th and 8th level, starting with most suitable, or make player to choose only one of them (his speciality)
- Profession: Miner and Appraise should be the skill list

- Tremor, althought being a tent level power is too powerfull and complicated to use. It requires heavy changes to be balanced. My suggestions for it.
- Make the Fort Save DC either Caster level + WIS or 20+WIS (ie. 10+Talhund level + WIS)
- Area of effect: If you want a cone: Talhund level x 5 feet long, CHA modifier x 5 feet wide, I would prefer CHA modifier x 5 feet radius
- Usable CHA modfier (if positive) + 1 times / day or usage spends one of the daily turning attemps

 

[Mjollnir]

The PrC is too powerful, Rock skin by itself makes the PrC very appealing to a warrior cleric.

I wouldn't do that. In 2nd edition they talk about a Dumathoin archlich which skin turns to stone at a very high level. I try to show this in a slow proccess.

I would suggest few changes:
- instead of full spell casting progression perhaps something like 2/3 levels, netting 3 level loss durign the 10 levels of Prc

I like the idea of the cleric still having tha chance to cast spells as she gains levels, even in a Prestige class, if not, go on with the cleric core class.

- Another option could be based on that silence theme: disallow TALHUND to cast spells with verbal component. That would effectively decrease their caster level by 2 when determining possible spells (because of silent spell)
- Make use of silence aura to spent one of clerics turning attemps per day, it should restric it nicely
- Spread that Crafting Knowledge over the Prc, like one skill focus at 2nd, 4th, 6th and 8th level, starting with most suitable, or make player to choose only one of them (his speciality)
- Profession: Miner and Appraise should be the skill list

- Tremor, althought being a tent level power is too powerfull and complicated to use. It requires heavy changes to be balanced. My suggestions for it.
- Make the Fort Save DC either Caster level + WIS or 20+WIS (ie. 10+Talhund level + WIS)
- Area of effect: If you want a cone: Talhund level x 5 feet long, CHA modifier x 5 feet wide, I would prefer CHA modifier x 5 feet radius
- Usable CHA modfier (if positive) + 1 times / day or usage spends one of the daily turning attemps

These modifications are interesting. Maybe I let a silence aura only self-centered and suppress the radius effect, or consider no verbal components for spell casting. Thanks a lot you all!

 

[Mjollnir]

Ooops! I wrote some comments on last thread which are bold as quoted from last guy, please read through it all and forgive my clumdiness!

 

[Chacal]

You can also edit the post with the edit icon and
put [/quote] before your text and [quote] after

Chacal
P.S: did you made other specialty priests ?

 

[Mjollnir]

Thanks
I'm working on a Moradin and Clanggeddin Silverbeard ones, but it really takes time to think on how to create them properly. I don't know when I'll finish them
I'm also interested in some elven deities as Corellon Larethian as I like elves and dwarves a lot!

 

[Mjollnir]

Been revised below Thanks u all