D&D 5E Dumbfounded

Kraydak

First Post
I figured I'd sleep on it before posting this, but I'm dumbfounded by the new playtest packet. Normally I can figure out what designers were trying for even if I don't agree, but now I'm at a loss. (Parenthetically, I'm not a 4e fan, this is not a reaction to that side of things)

In no particular order:

1) Fighters. We have bonus feats (because that worked so well in 3rd), no improvement to out-of-combat abilities and dead levels. The "big" fighter-only mechanic are expertise dice. These are Encounter-type abilities because the recharge mechanic is so dreadful it should be used a handful of times over a full 20 level career, BUT the abilities granted are weak and flavorless. It is the worst of all worlds: fiddly, tedious (careful use of small dice) and flavorless while also annoying people who don't like encounter-abilities for fighters. The recharge mechanic makes the design look even shoddier because it is so bad. This is at the bad-3e-3rd-party design level.

2) Rogues. They stripped the Rogues of most of their out-of-combat abilities. Yes, they get more bonus feats now, but those are spent trying to rebuy lost skills (they lost 2 skills), lost skill effects (Open Locks, Pick Pocket?!) or the Skill Tricks, and don't come anywhere close to covering the losses. The nerf to Skill Mastery is just added pain. They appear to be attempting to remove any hint of a skill system (maybe harkening back to 1e pre-WSG...). But even 1e, pre-WSG (I think that book), had a skill system, which was Thief only.

3) Scaling. I've been waiting for the designers to unveil their scaling system, in vain. Right now, Next has *1* form of scaling. HP/Damage. Anything that doesn't interact with that does not scale. This includes Skill checks (1st level, 20th level, barely makes a difference, expect your 20th level character to lose opposed skill checks to 1st level opponents even in areas he focusses on). It includes Saving Throws (20th level characters NEED to gank 1st level spell casters, because their Save-or-Suck abilities are just as hard to avoid at level 20 as at level 1). It includes Grapple (because a lvl 1 Fighter being helpless against a level 20 Fighter, UNLESS he uses Grapple, in which case he is fully effective is just peachy-keen). This is an under-discussed disaster in the making.

3.5) On a side note, no level scaling to Saving Throws, but level scaling to Save DCs?! Words fail me.

4) D6s. Oh the d6s, or rerolls, or roll twice/take the best. Every modifier is a die roll, and most are situational. They are omnipresent and tedious. While *1* bonus die roll might be reasonable, multiple extra rolls is not. One of the big advantages of static modifiers, for always-on effects, is that they can be computed once, which means that stacking modifiers doesn't pose a work-load problem. Instead, Next seems to be going for the "lots of tedious, middling sized circumstantial modifiers, which are dice rolls to take up extra time". Ugly design.
 

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While I don't necessarily disagree with your larger points, I would like to point out that a level 20 character will usually win contests with a level 1 if focused in a skill (because the skill die will probably be considerably larger). Not exactly reliably, but certainly more often.
 

While I don't necessarily disagree with your larger points, I would like to point out that a level 20 character will usually win contests with a level 1 if focused in a skill (because the skill die will probably be considerably larger). Not exactly reliably, but certainly more often.
Right now, opposed skill or attribute checks by the rules are pretty terrible. It's all because the variability of the d20 overrides the "bounded" bonuses badly.

-O
 

You sound...angry.

Im not. I actually thought this playtest was a distinct improvement on the last. Complete? No. But after listening to the podcasts (I am assuming you listen to them) I like the way they analyse objectives and requirements and you can see their rational manifesting in these latest rule.

It needs work, but its a step in the right direction (hell, even the skill system is starting to win me over).

For my part, completely disagree with the OP
 

Personally, I'm loving the new packet. I pretty much disagree with everything you're saying, especially regarding scaling. I think it's great- completely headed in the right direction.
 

Yeah, for what it's worth, this is the first packet where I think it's a definite improvement over the last one in pretty much every respect.

It's still not great, IMO. But it's better. And if it keeps heading in this direction, I won't mind adding it to my stable of games nearly as much.

-O
 

I agree with points 1 and 2 of of the OP, but not post #3. I think the fighter and rogue are both a step backward ( I loved my options of assassinate, sneak attack,etc!). The fighters bonus feats could be grouped into fighting styles with the option to pick a la carte, and that would help a lot. If they are going to give the fighter encounter abilties I think they should be dramatic and useful. Ricochet=Fun current Glancing Blow=Bad. Furthermore I wish you had the ability to choose more freely between the abilities. Last packet I loved designing a fighter who spent all his manuevers on bumping his saving throws (and initiative, I think) to represent a grizzled wanderer and adventurer.

That said, I'm really liking the current druid. I know someone who is dieing to play a wildshape focused druid. The ranger and paladin are both showing promise as well. I think with a little polish this new take on favored enemy (well new to wotc, I've seen similar homebrews off and on for a couple years now) could end up really awesome.
 

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