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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ourph" data-source="post: 2958623" data-attributes="member: 20239">I think you're misrepresenting the situation.  The DM IS an adversary in the game, in that he places challenges that may very well have negative consequences for the characters.  That doesn't have to mean that he's "out to get" anyone.  There's a philosophical difference between a world where the PCs find some extra treasure and then thieves come out of the woodwork specifically to take it away and a world where the thieves were always present but the PCs didn't notice them before finding the Frostbrand because they had nothing particularly worthwhile to steal.The PCs may be facing metal-corroding oozes, rust monsters and disintegration rays already (and losing mundane weapons in the process).  If a PC gains a great prize like a Frostbrand, it's up to that player to take care of that weapon and keep it from suffering the same fate as those other weapons.The point is, the player isn't being targeted because of the extra treasure, he's facing the same dangers that were there all along.  He's just got something more precious to lose now and it's up to him to keep it from disappearing (like so much other treasure does) through superior play.This is one of the main differences between old and new school style in dungeon design I think.  It used to be that the assumption was that players were facing a lot of dangerous situations and would be losing equipment and treasure (magical and otherwise) all the time, so it was OK to include a lot in the game for them to find.  Since destroying the PCs equipment has become more off limits as a challenge to throw at them, it's become much more essential to control the amount they receive in the first place.I think it's failing to see the whole picture if you accuse DMs who still think that equipment and treasure loss are just normal hazards of the game of playing "Gotcha!" or approaching the game with the idea that they are out to screw the players or DMs who provide way more than the usual amount of treasure of being Monty Haul DMs, because those two styles are often used together and compensate for the effects of one another.  As long as the equilibrium of loss to gain is fairly constant those games are no different than a game where equipment is found at the base level and very rarely lost.  Some players and DMs find that type of game where the attitude is "I lost my Frostbrand.  Oh well, I'll just search extra hard from now on until I find another cool weapon" enjoyable and more entertaining than one where equipment is sacrosanct and static.</blockquote>

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