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<blockquote data-quote="Bendris Noulg" data-source="post: 834094" data-attributes="member: 6398">So, been given this some thought, and here's some things I'd like to toss out for consideration...First, is BoVD itself gratuitous?I think not.&nbsp; The reason being: It's a book about vileness.&nbsp; It may seem gratuitous and overdone, especially to those who prefer not to use such material.&nbsp; However, being that it is all between the covers of one book, is this really the case?&nbsp; Would the possession rules be considered gratuitous if it had been included in the Monster Manual?&nbsp; Would the Feats and Spells have been considered gratuitous if included in Lords of Darkness?&nbsp; Would the Devil/Demons have been over-the-top if included in Deities &amp; Demigods?Second, was the &quot;mature&quot; adventures in Dungeon really &quot;mature&quot;?While BoVD can be considered &quot;mature&quot; (which I take as &quot;for use by mature people that will treat it correctly&quot; more than anything else), were the adventures in Dungeon during the &quot;month of Vile&quot; truly &quot;mature&quot;?&nbsp; Indeed, going over them, I find them to be pretty much the standard adventures, with the same amount of cheese, clich'es and over-simplified solutions that most WotC adventures tend to always have.&nbsp; If anything, the Dungeon adventures failed to truly do anything really different, thus was gratuitous because the same adventure could have been done without the BoVD even being in print.When Vile content is used to create an adventure or scenario that could not have been done otherwise, and does it in a matter than challenges the Player's fears without resorting to &quot;shock and awe&quot;, than I'd say it's mature.&nbsp; In opposition, when any every-day adventure is painted in vile colors just because &quot;we can&quot;, than we are sliding into the realm where people can truly have legitament complaints about the content being used.Consider:Would Alien (the first one) have been as scary if it actually showed you the gore?Would Hellraiser have been as creepy without it?So, I support Dungeon moving in this direction because, honestly, I am hoping that continued use of this material in the market might actually improve the manner in which it gets used.&nbsp; And if that happens, I would have a new source for material (being that I don't buy it often now).&nbsp; I also support the idea of a third publication, for the same reason and to allow Dungeon to remain useful to those who use it currently.&nbsp; But overall, I would just like to see the material get used more on a professional basis.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bendris Noulg, post: 834094, member: 6398"] So, been given this some thought, and here's some things I'd like to toss out for consideration... First, is BoVD itself gratuitous? I think not. The reason being: It's a book [i]about[/i] vileness. It may seem gratuitous and overdone, especially to those who prefer not to use such material. However, being that it is all between the covers of one book, is this really the case? Would the possession rules be considered gratuitous if it had been included in the Monster Manual? Would the Feats and Spells have been considered gratuitous if included in Lords of Darkness? Would the Devil/Demons have been over-the-top if included in Deities & Demigods? Second, was the "mature" adventures in Dungeon really "mature"? While BoVD can be considered "mature" (which I take as "for use by mature people that will treat it correctly" more than anything else), were the adventures in Dungeon during the "month of Vile" truly "mature"? Indeed, going over them, I find them to be pretty much the standard adventures, with the same amount of cheese, clich'es and over-simplified solutions that most WotC adventures tend to always have. If anything, the Dungeon adventures failed to truly do anything really different, thus was gratuitous because the same adventure could have been done without the BoVD even being in print. When Vile content is used to create an adventure or scenario that could not have been done otherwise, and does it in a matter than challenges the Player's fears without resorting to "shock and awe", than I'd say it's mature. In opposition, when any every-day adventure is painted in vile colors just because "we can", than we are sliding into the realm where people can truly have legitament complaints about the content being used. Consider: Would Alien (the first one) have been as scary if it actually showed you the gore? Would Hellraiser have been as creepy without it? So, I support Dungeon moving in this direction because, honestly, I am [i]hoping[/i] that continued use of this material in the market might actually improve the manner in which it gets used. And if that happens, I would have a new source for material (being that I don't buy it often now). I also support the idea of a third publication, for the same reason [i]and[/i] to allow Dungeon to remain useful to those who use it currently. But overall, I would just like to see the material get used more on a professional basis. [/QUOTE]

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