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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gothmog" data-source="post: 840608" data-attributes="member: 317">Well, I'll add my voice for the pro-vile side of the debate, and point out a few things to consider.1) What is really so terrible and vile in the BoVD? Specific examples please people.  There is a lot of fuss over this book, yet from the comments of the vocal critics, I don't get the impression they have really read it in depth.  Sure, its dark and more gritty, a little of it is gross, but so are the stories of Howard, and Lovecraft deals with some more mature themes in his works (cults, madness, depraved backwoods hillbillies, inbreeding, etc).  The fact is that much the info in the BoVD is based of REAL WORLD myth and folkore.  Do those of you who object to the vile content object to real world mythology (Greek and Hindu spring to mind immediately) for their depictions of rape, murder, sacrifice and other atrocities?  And what about movies and TV?  Do you get outraged that movies like Silence of the Lambs exists, or tv shows like CSI or Profiler?  They are far more mainstream than D&D could ever dream of being, and they are seen by far more children.2) I'm betting that almost everyone who is objecting to the BoVD already has more vile and evil components in their games than is contained in any "vile" article.  Have you ever considered that the wholesale slaughter of a tribe of orcs just because they are "evil" or for their treasure is an incredibly deviant and despicalbe act?  Yet "good" adventurers do it every day, and in most games, they are praised for doing this.  Explain to me exactly how this is less morally evil than necrophilia, sacrifice, torture, or rape.  PLEASE NOTE: I am not condoning any of these actions, I just fail to see the logic in being so upset about some actions while genocide and murder for profit are seen as ok.3) Those of us who like the BoVD use it to enhance the story, not for some immature thrill ride.  Some people need more from their villains than a two-dimensional comic book bad guy.  Such villains simply aren't compelling and are often laughable goons.  I have personally used ithe BoVD several times: once when the paladin and cleric in my group exorcised a demon from a little boy who had allowed it to possess him so he could get back at kids who had been mean to him.  Another example- a "good" preist who was a masochist would torture "heretics", forcing them to give confessions of terrible sins, only to be put to death later.  He did this in order to enhance his own position in the church as a pious man- and the characters had to deal with the considerable political and religious power this man held.  Those of you who see any use of the BoVD and vile content as "boobies, nipple clamps, and EEEVIL" are simply mistaken.4) Those of you who feel alienated by one article or adventure every few months really need to put things in perspective.  You do realize you are a minority, albeit a vocal one?  If you don't like it, DON"T READ IT OR USE IT!  I have a massive dislike for drow and the Forgotten Realms, and I never use such material in my games, but I am mature enough to realize others do like this, so I keep my opinions to myself and simply don't use it!  At least be mature enough to agree to disagree with others, and not try to force your morality or vision of what D&D is down the throats of other people.  Now that WotC has published the BoVD and may have other titles in this series, it deserves support, just like any other release.  Granted, if I had kids, I probably wouldn't want them to look at this stuff alone, but if you are a parent and your kid wants the BoVD, isn't it better that you go over it with him/her than the child looking at it alone and maybe getting the wrong idea?  Responsibility rests with the parent, not with the publisher for the behavior of your children.5) As others have said, I really hope D&D doesn't become mainstream.  I think it would be disastrous for the game, both rules-wise and in terms of group play.  Anyway, I don't think this is even a danger in the slightest.  Most people are just too plain lazy to expend the mental energy to imagine and take an active role in their entertainment- they want to be spoon-fed mindless crap (reality shows anyone?).  And last time I checked, being a geek or nerd wasn't a bad thing except to the vacuous "hip" crowd.I guess it comes down to a matter of personal taste.  If you don't enjoy vile material, then don't use it.  But don't force your opinions on others who might enjoy said material.</blockquote>

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