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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gothmog" data-source="post: 840816" data-attributes="member: 317">A few questions/clarifications Psion:Psion: "Oh, good freaking lord. Are you so desperate to defend your stance that you pull out the old chestnut that D&D bashers do?Even the BoVD doesn't play the "orcs are misunderstood" card. In fact, it spells out pretty clearly that D&D is a game where evil beings really are evil and really are a threat."No- not desperate.  Just wondering why selective morality applies to murder, but not rape, torture, etc.  If evil is absolte in D&D (and that varies according to each DM), and if evil deserves to be punished/killed/destroyed, then is raping or torturing an evil creature ok?  It seems to be by this logic.  If not, there seems to be a huge contradiction in morality inherent in most games.  In most game worlds, I would imagine that orcs would be seen as irrevocably evil and not redeemable- subhuman if you will.  Human history has shown us that "subhumans" have been treated as animals, slaves, amusement devices, and objects of sadism with few cultural repurcussions.  If it is ok to murder orcs for no reason or for profit, why is it not acceptable to degrade them in other ways?  Psychology shows us that by degrading objects of hatred/fear, we dehumanize them and make it easier for us to commit atrocities against them.  I'm not condoning this behavior at all, just wondering about the justification behind it all.Psion "Ah, but I disagree, at least in part. Much of it is good material. But some of it is low brow (nipple-clamp of exquisite pain, anyone) and if you honestly think that the artwork isn't "boobies, nipple clamps, and EEEVIL," you are in denial.True- some of the artwork is rather tasteless, but that doesn't mean that the material in the book or adventures based off it automatically are.  Undoubtedly, some people will go the "boobies, nipple clamps, and EEVIL" route, but not everybody.  For the record, I'm not terrbly fond of much of the artwork in the BoVD, but the ideas and game mechanics are solid and well done.  I think the artwork would be much more evocative if it went with a more subtle, sinister feel- something like some of the WW books. Psion: "Are we now? You do, of course, have demographics to back this up, right?I think that those that DEMAND vile are a minority, probably a smaller one.How hypocritical is that. If you don't want vileness in your magazine, just suck it up? Sure, print BoVD and similar books; I simply won't buy it if I think it is over the line. But when you begin to put "edgy" material in the general venue... which includes Dungeon and Dragon... it is YOU who are forcing your morality down my throat."You're probably right in saying that those that DEMAND vile content are fewer in number than those who vocally oppose it.  But I don't think you are taking into account that there are a LOT of people who wouldn't lobby for it, but the vile content doesn't bother, and who would use it if it was presented.It probably wouldn't be the best idea to put much vile content in Dungeon and Dragon, and certainly not in the core rules, but one article or adventure every few months is not extreme.  If a song comes on your favorite radio station that you find offensive, do you become outraged that it is being forced upon you, or do you simply turn to a different station?  Its much the same situation here.  You can't keep everybody happy all of the time, but you can keep most of the people happy most of the time.  I'd say Paizo needs to conduct more reseach into this to determine the level of support or protest to vile content, and move from there.Not directed at anyone in particular, but sometimes I wonder if people just go looking for something to offend them, and raise a big stink when they find something.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes    :rolleyes:"  data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /> If THIS is your biggest and most pressing concern in life, you might want to consider re-evaluating your priorities.</blockquote>

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