Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Dungeon Mastering as a Fine Art
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6308600" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>As I'm about to demonstrate, they are also in contradiction to Gygax's DMG and to Moldvay Basic.</p><p></p><p>Also, are you familiar with the early 80s Puffin book "What is Dungeons & Dragons?" (Americans generally aren't, but as a British RPGer you might be)? It includes examples of player-created fictional background, players making decisions for their PCs based on ingame story and thematic concerns rather than simply pawn stance, and certainly has a far more expansive conception of what RPGing might be then is demonstrated in howandwhy99's posts.</p><p></p><p>From Moldvay Basic, p B53:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Wandering monters may be determined at random or selected by the DM. . . Wandering Monsters should apppear more often if the party is making a lot of noise or light, but should not be frequent if the party spend a long time in one out-of-the-way place (if they stop in a room for the night, for example).</p><p></p><p>From Gygax's DMG, p 221:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Some Dungeon Masters have difficulty decribing the contents of potion bottles, magical elixers, and like liquid substances. The lists below give the appearances of liquids, colors, tastes, and smells. In combination with <strong>APPENDIX I: DUNGEON DRESSING</strong> (q.v.) or by itself, these various descriptive words will serve the DM in god tea when preparing level keys or when "winging it".</p><p></p><p>Gygax again, p 110:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><em>t is your right to conrol the dice at any time and to roll the dice for the players. . . You might . . . wish to give them an edge in finding a particular clue, e.g. a secret door that leads to a complex of monsters and treasures that will be especially entertaining. You do have every right to overrule the dice at any time if there is a particular course of events that you would like to have occur.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>It seems to me that neither Gygax nor Moldvay agrees with you. I have my own views on what sort of "overruling" Gygax had in mind - I think he was not talking about Rule 0 or cheating, but about GM control over framing and also the adjudication of fictional positioning - but it is clear that he thinks a GM has a role to play in introducing and managing game content during the course of play.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Relating back to my OP, Gygax also advised (on p 110) that</em></p><p><em></em></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><em>There will be times in which the rules to not cover a specific action that a player will attempt. In such situations, instead of being forced to make a decision, take the option to allow the dice to control the situation. This can be done by assigning a reasonable probability to an event then letting the player dice to see if he or she can make that percentage. You can weigh the dice in any way so as to give the advantage to either the player character or the non-player character, whichever seems more correct and logical to you while being fair to both sides.</p><p></em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6308600, member: 42582"] As I'm about to demonstrate, they are also in contradiction to Gygax's DMG and to Moldvay Basic. Also, are you familiar with the early 80s Puffin book "What is Dungeons & Dragons?" (Americans generally aren't, but as a British RPGer you might be)? It includes examples of player-created fictional background, players making decisions for their PCs based on ingame story and thematic concerns rather than simply pawn stance, and certainly has a far more expansive conception of what RPGing might be then is demonstrated in howandwhy99's posts. From Moldvay Basic, p B53: [indent]Wandering monters may be determined at random or selected by the DM. . . Wandering Monsters should apppear more often if the party is making a lot of noise or light, but should not be frequent if the party spend a long time in one out-of-the-way place (if they stop in a room for the night, for example).[/indent] From Gygax's DMG, p 221: [indent]Some Dungeon Masters have difficulty decribing the contents of potion bottles, magical elixers, and like liquid substances. The lists below give the appearances of liquids, colors, tastes, and smells. In combination with [B]APPENDIX I: DUNGEON DRESSING[/B] (q.v.) or by itself, these various descriptive words will serve the DM in god tea when preparing level keys or when "winging it".[/indent] Gygax again, p 110: [indent][I]t is your right to conrol the dice at any time and to roll the dice for the players. . . You might . . . wish to give them an edge in finding a particular clue, e.g. a secret door that leads to a complex of monsters and treasures that will be especially entertaining. You do have every right to overrule the dice at any time if there is a particular course of events that you would like to have occur.[/I][/indent][I] It seems to me that neither Gygax nor Moldvay agrees with you. I have my own views on what sort of "overruling" Gygax had in mind - I think he was not talking about Rule 0 or cheating, but about GM control over framing and also the adjudication of fictional positioning - but it is clear that he thinks a GM has a role to play in introducing and managing game content during the course of play. Relating back to my OP, Gygax also advised (on p 110) that [indent]There will be times in which the rules to not cover a specific action that a player will attempt. In such situations, instead of being forced to make a decision, take the option to allow the dice to control the situation. This can be done by assigning a reasonable probability to an event then letting the player dice to see if he or she can make that percentage. You can weigh the dice in any way so as to give the advantage to either the player character or the non-player character, whichever seems more correct and logical to you while being fair to both sides.[/indent][/i] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Dungeon Mastering as a Fine Art
Top