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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6310030" data-attributes="member: 87792">Here we agree <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Fair enough <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  Being on the same page is a good thing.And here I believe you to be incorrect.  Second and third generation, possibly.  But first generation, Lake Geneva and co, the group that gave us Xagyg, Melf the Male Elf, "Medium" Rary, and the brothers Bigby, Rigby, Sygby, and Digby I believe would have been fine with it.  Theirs was not a group to let canon or what little tradition they had stand in the way of fun.How do I know this?  Other than Mike Mornard (the only player who was in both Arneson's original Blackmoor campaign and Gygax' original Greyhawk campaign) has a continual refrain as to why anything the way it is of "We made up some <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> we thought would be fun" (<a href="http://wmusswtwbf.wordpress.com/" target="_blank">he's also in the process of editing his anecdotes of very early D&D to publish as a kickstarter</a>).  First the origins of D&D - back in the original <a href="http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/104/braunstein-the-roots-of-roleplaying-games/" target="_blank">Braunstein</a>.  Arneson took the intended setting (banana republic), made changes to it and the background on the player side (added the CIA and a CIA badge that passed inspection) and proceeded to subvert the entire game.  But that's not D&D.Let's look at another case of the players changing and adding backstory to the setting.  The origins of the Cleric.  Again, <a href="http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?264684-Necro-Historical-Where-did-the-Cleric-Mage-split-come-from&p=5787205#post5787205" target="_blank">as relayed by Mike Mornard</a>.The players again added things to the setting - a vampire hunter based on Peter Cushing.  It's not Christian roots - it's Hammer Horror.  Player driven.  As, for that matter was the presence of all the Tolkeinesque PC races in D&D.  <a href="http://grognardia.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/gygax-on-tolkien-again.html" target="_blank">Gygax didn't like Tolkein</a>.  But his players did.  So the players added Tolkeinesque races.And let's go a little more extreme on the Tolkeinesque front. Mornard played a baby balrog in both the original Blackmoor and the original Greyhawk.  And didn't just play a baby balrog (it had to be a baby) - he made things up on the fly like <a href="http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?668828-Theory-Flavors-of-D-amp-D&p=16249480#post16249480" target="_blank">putting on an asbestos press hat and infiltrating the wizard's lair by pretending to be a reporter from the Balrog Times, using his thumb as the flash</a>.  You know what didn't exist in the setting before he tried that sort of shenanigans?  Either reporters or flash photography.  But it was cool, it didn't break the setting, and it made things more fun.  So the player was allowed to make it up.So no I don't buy any argument that the original D&D players weren't allowed to author game world content outside their characters.  Because there is plenty of evidence of them doing exactly that  It's only after setting started being published and used, and the game got away from Lake Geneva that there was any problem with this.</blockquote>

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