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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 9448139" data-attributes="member: 18">Having read that consensus, it's definitely there, but a lot of it is, er... pretty low-brow.Like, not intelligent critiques which understands what Dungeon World is specifically trying to do, but relatively dim-witted critiques that are more about it failing to check boxes and failing to do everything exactly the accepted PtbA ways and/or more interested in repudiating what Dungeon World's explicit goals were, rather than critiquing it on its own terms.There is some more intelligent criticism on the grounds of certain parts of the system not really working well in either PtbA terms or in terms of what it's doing (I think some have been mentioned already), but really, an awful lot of the critiques of that kind are very shallow.So I'm not sure &quot;the consensus&quot; is to be respected here. Especially when the same &quot;consensus&quot; at one point, long before Koebel did anything wrong, attempted to essentially &quot;cancel&quot; Dungeon World for following D&amp;D tropes, which they considered &quot;harmful&quot;.AFAIK there's no drama with him, but he specifically said that if he made DW2 he would have stripped out basically everything D&amp;D-like from DW2, right down to things like &quot;kill monsters and take their stuff&quot;, which he (correctly, to be fair) called &quot;colonialist&quot;. I mean, it absolutely is on a certain level, but at the same, that's kind of part of the core of D&amp;D and similar games. But not just that - his position was that, if he was forced to make DW2, essentially everything D&amp;D-like must go. Essentially he agreed with the &quot;PtbA community&quot; of years-past (which was quite a narrow community, kinda got half wiped-out when Google Plus got ditched, because so much of it was based there), that being D&amp;D-like was &quot;harmful&quot;. Again, I sympathize, I get the perspective, but... it's like, so make a different game! It's like saying tactical-style shooters like Call of Duty are &quot;harmful&quot; (again, I get it, it's not an entirely unreasonable argument), so Call of Duty should become Team Fortress 2-like.Anyway at that point, how would it be Dungeon World? Which was designed primarily to emulate D&amp;D tonally and feel-wise (and did a remarkable job of it).He also just didn't really want to do it, so I am happy for him to not be involved.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 9448139, member: 18"] Having read that consensus, it's definitely there, but a lot of it is, er... pretty low-brow. Like, not intelligent critiques which understands what Dungeon World is specifically trying to do, but relatively dim-witted critiques that are more about it failing to check boxes and failing to do everything exactly the accepted PtbA ways and/or more interested in repudiating what Dungeon World's explicit goals were, rather than critiquing it on its own terms. There is some more intelligent criticism on the grounds of certain parts of the system not really working well in either PtbA terms or in terms of what it's doing (I think some have been mentioned already), but really, an awful lot of the critiques of that kind are very shallow. So I'm not sure "the consensus" is to be respected here. Especially when the same "consensus" at one point, long before Koebel did anything wrong, attempted to essentially "cancel" Dungeon World for following D&D tropes, which they considered "harmful". AFAIK there's no drama with him, but he specifically said that if he made DW2 he would have stripped out basically everything D&D-like from DW2, right down to things like "kill monsters and take their stuff", which he (correctly, to be fair) called "colonialist". I mean, it [I]absolutely is[/I] on a certain level, but at the same, that's kind of part of the core of D&D and similar games. But not just that - his position was that, if he was forced to make DW2, essentially everything D&D-like must go. Essentially he agreed with the "PtbA community" of years-past (which was quite a narrow community, kinda got half wiped-out when Google Plus got ditched, because so much of it was based there), that being D&D-like was "harmful". Again, I sympathize, I get the perspective, but... it's like, so make a different game! It's like saying tactical-style shooters like Call of Duty are "harmful" (again, I get it, it's not an entirely unreasonable argument), so Call of Duty should become Team Fortress 2-like. Anyway at that point, how would it be Dungeon World? Which was designed primarily to emulate D&D tonally and feel-wise (and did a remarkable job of it). He also just didn't really want to do it, so I am happy for him to not be involved. [/QUOTE]

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