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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8255006" data-attributes="member: 16814"><Checks clock and makes sure this quoted my last post>We seem to be talking past each other.  I don't disagree that your formulation above could look like a setup move, but I disagree that it is.  Dealing with the ghost is a direct threat, and it's dealt with directly.  Play then moves to the next obstacle.  A setup move, on the other hand, is made and the same obstacle still exists to be dealt with.  To me, a setup move isn't getting past the immediate obstacle to attend to the obstacle at the end, it's doing something to make the immediate obstacle easier to overcome -- it doesn't advance to the next obstacle.  This is what I see what I look at your Illuminate action (if that's still the current name).  It's couched to suggest that you use it to gain an edge on an immediate obstacle, and doesn't look couched to be well used as a way to overcome an immediate obstacle.  I think the temple traps scene from the end of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is a good toy example to look at.  As Indy approached each of the three traps, he recalled his teaching and then used those to physically overcome the traps.  The way you have it phrased, and the way I understand Spout Lore from DW, the play would look like a Spout Lore check which would establish how a trap works, then a Defy Danger (or other move as appropriate) to leverage that into passing the trap.  This is how I see your current Illuminate action phrased out as all -- it's passive and established new facts about the current obstacle, but doesn't directly bypass the obstacle.  I think it would be better to have this ability couched in terms of 'do' rather than 'recall', so that the play example could be using Illuminate (and I like Assess better) directly to say that you're using your knowledge of Grail history to get through the trap.  One roll, and done.One of the things I see different about the two above examples is that in Blades, I can always choose to use any Action as a setup, but I can also use it to directly attack the problem.  Spout Lore, on the other hand, never (or rarely) directly attacks an obstacle, it's always (or usually) a setup for something else.  I think importing this kind of primarily-setup move into the Blades structure does some minor damage to that structure, in that now I have one ability that is distinctly different in use cases from the rest.Anyway, last from me on the topic.</blockquote>

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