Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 5727657" data-attributes="member: 2067">Quite possibly! That there are primal spirits is as clear as the fact that there are creatures who call themselves gods, but it might be like a Buddhist, Jainist, Confusion, or Taoist atheism: there's supernatural creatures and supernatural powers, but calling them "gods" is unnecessary or just that they're not "higher" spiritual creatures (and thus not entitled to worship). What's important is how you live your life -- and how you relate to the natural world.Then there's this distinction between the gods as mortals know them, and whatever "power" the gods wield...which may be above the gods themselves! It's interesting that in D&D, the "creator deities" are pretty much literal truth, which means that there's evidence for powerful creators who perform "miracles," but these miracles and acts of creation are rationally understood -- there's no need for belief, in the fundamental sense. So I think when we talk about D&D-brand atheism, it's more about practice and idealism: these things should not be worshiped, or that these things are harmful in some way. There's other ways to perform miracles equal to or greater than divine power, without the need to be some god's willing slave. And the gods themselves are flawed, petty, and jealous, so it's clear to think that you might do a better job. There's also something they're all tapping into (divine power!) that clearly isn't being worshiped itself, something beyond them that they all share, that might be pure enough to be transcendent. You might also say that EVERYONE in D&D is an "atheist." They lack a belief, because a belief is unnecessary. Gods are tools to be used just as anything else is, like powerful wizards who have determined how to share their power, and set up laws that one may follow to get it. It's not about belief, it's about worship, or practice, or behavior. Even the clerics don't "believe," they just "know."In a setting with more "distant gods", I imagine an atheism being stronger -- one where divine magic works fine, but there's no active personalities involved in it. Rejecting the focus of the worship is easier -- you can believe it's metaphors and systemic self-deception just as easily as anyone here on reg'lar Earth can. A setting like Eberron probably has more than a few folks who are functional atheists, and more than a few folks who reject that the Silver Flame or the Sovereign Host have any real power (it comes simply from your devotion!). In fact:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Greyhawk: Gods are mellifluous and active, but might not be worthy of belief or adherence. They're another source of power, just as books and your sword-arm are.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Forgotten Realms: Gods are very active and multitudinous, making up the physical structure of the world, but clearly have been about as destructive as they are creative. They are personalities, however, and you can feel free to dislike any of them, and you might do a better job, and you can rise to godhood yourself! </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Eberron: Gods are distant and unapproachable, mostly silent and irrelevant to daily life. There is divine power, but its source and nature are not well understood, since many who worship many different concepts receive it. It's entirely possible to go through life rejecting the stories and myths of the gods as only stories, rather than literal history. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Dark Sun: God what now? There are not gods, and there is no divine power. Once Upon A Time, there may have been, but everyone's an Atheist now. The only things calling themselves gods are a few Sorcerer-Kings, which might be able to force worship, but clearly aren't transcendent about it. </li> </ul></blockquote>

Verification