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Message: <blockquote data-quote="LurkAway" data-source="post: 5728364" data-attributes="member: 6685059">I was thinking that:- priests of no specific deity can still access the same divine spells- priests and cultists of inferior entities and even dead gods can still access divine spells- in Eberron, priests of the 'wrong' alignment can still access divine spells- gods are credited for providing divine spells, making the crops grow, etc. while simultaneously unable to direct that same enormous level of power towards their own ambitions (ie., chained gods can't free themselves, parties of gods can't kill titans) or even self-preservation (ie., gods can be killed by mortal trespassers)So when you assume that game mechanics translate into objective truths in D&D fiction, then there is a definitely a divine 'spell delivery system' that is more-or-less independant of the gods themselves, even though they take all the credit for it. When you have a pretty reliable conveyer belt delivering you the goods regardless of your faith or your benefactor, I think a lot of people would start the question -- is my god the source of all of this or just a sort of overglamorized steward.It's arguable that divine spells is not the primary reason for faith in a god. However, they do take all the credit for it, which is suspicious and dishonest if it's not true (especially from a good god). Secondly, for me, the divine spells are both evidence and reward for your faith and *compensation* for all the terrible tangible evil in the world (esp. any tolerance of evil churches) and so divine spells would be, I think, a primary reason to respect and worship the good gods.Faith may not be so easily shaken and undermined by bad things  in the world, and the struggle of good over evil is a continuous  process. Yet it is a bit different when you've given your heart and soul  to your god for divine spells and hope and protection, and your filthy Orcus-worshipping  neighbour receives the same boons and tries to wither your crops and  kill you and raise you from the dead to serve as his own zombie  farmhand. Miracles are a huge source of faith, and when you realize the other side  gets the same level of miracles, it could be quite faith-shattering. Conversely, faith in your god would be strengthened when your filthy Orcus-worshipping neighbour can barely utter a cantrip and you shake your head with pity confirming that Orcus is a petty demon who cannot reach out to his faithful like your god can. I know that as a game, it's less than flexibile to penalize players for not wanting to choose a specific god or specific pantheon, or choosing a lesser underpowered god (and thus having a limit on max spell level). However, that does have implications on the fiction that, for me, suggest that atheism of some sort is objectively correct and that doubt about the gods may be quite systemic, especially among the worldly class.OTOH, a D&D character disenchanted with the gods might not be fully atheistic but instead wonder if a greater god is responsible for the multiverse and the divine spell delivery system, and this uber-god doesn't seek to be worshipped for some reason, and I think this has been alluded to with Ao in FR, but I don't think D&D fiction will ever officially go there.</blockquote>

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