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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9458421" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Sure, different methods can have different consequences... but again, one does have to note, I can not think of a single negative consquence you have ever laid out for your preference, while even the most positive thing you had to say about mine was a backhanded compliment at best, and an insult at worst.Yes, I understand this is all your preference. However, it is rather difficult to compare and contrast such vague styles without this phrasing.Why do they need to tell you explicitly? Sure, you can say "because that is what makes me personally the most comfortable" but that isn't a style. Styles aren't based on your personality. And you say that if they don't know to ask, then it is likely not relevant, but I disagree. I disagree specifically BECAUSE they are asking for something. They may not have a specific question, they may not know what to ask, but they are asking because they feel like there is something they missed, some angle that they need to decide on a goal and course of action. If they did not feel that way, they would not ask.Why not? What other information could I even gain from Insight?You say the degree of detail is unnecessary, but I'm going to turn that around. IF looking at or observing the guy is enough... well what OTHER way is there to make an insight attempt? You are presenting this as though "I am observing him to determine is motivations and emotional state" is clarifying information, but this is just what Insight MEANS in DnD. It has no other uses, no other methods, and no other goals. So from where I am sitting, you just insisted that I define Insight for you before I was allowed to make the attempt. Now for other skills, I can see needing more information. There are many ways to perform, there are many things you might want to know with history, but with skills like Insight, Medicine and Perception... there is only really one way to use them. Sure, you might be able to use medicine to bind a wound or identify a disease, but if you are running over to someone bleeding to death you are highly unlikely to be checking to see if they contracted the flu.This seems to be the entire root of your style then. You are uncomfortable making any assumptions regardless of the situation.Sure, but that is a knife that cuts both ways. The pacing and flow of the game can be more frantic and energetic, so short, punchy statements might be more appropriate than longer explanations to avoid any potential confusion on the player's goals and methods.Okay... well if that is a major concern, then you could just give them that information anyways. However, towards your point earlier about Brendan Lee Mulligan and how challenge and adversity make the story better? Crit Fails in those sort of situations are often used for comedic purposes, giving us more to the story that wouldn't have existed before. So, it is a 5% chance of more or different story, rather than a 5% chance of getting nothing.But they are engaging in the fictional world to get the additional information, that's what rolling is. Rolling is engaging with the fictional world. Maybe not on as deep as a level as you may prefer, but they are not sitting passively at the table doing nothing, they are moving forward with inquiring for information. That is engagement.There are many reasons that might happen. Like you said, I may have forgotten to say it. That is perfectly fine. It could be part of the normal ebb and flow of the group. It could be showmanship. It could be when I described it, it was the Barbarian who found the gate, and only later the wizard came over to investigate it, so it was only later when the information was appropriate to share. These things are complex.That conversation was long done by the time I came in, and I asked you if you could. If you wonder why people on the other side get defensive, despite it being "only my preference" then this is a good thing to look for. On my end, I DO use your method where I feel it is neccessary or helpful. I don't even need to ask a lot of the time, because players naturally lean into it at the correct times. However, you insist on correcting the players, on training them on how to respond to you, which is where my objection starts from. I don't think your style is neccessary for every single roll in every single situation. And by insisting that we should train our players to do it "the right way", then you start insisting that it should be used for every single roll.Calling it lazy, saying I need to put in less effort, putting forth the idea that your style is better for character and plot motivations. IT is sprinkled throughout.Again, what else could they be asking to do? And if they are asking for something else... well, oops, there was a bit of misspeaking. Not a big deal.And if they were using a tool or their own body... it would still be athletics. You can't get past a locked door with athletics by lifting the wall beside the door like a cartoon. You can't do it by sliding between the door jam and the door itself. You can't do it by animating the door with magic and causing it to open itself. Athletics vs Door is breaking the door. There is nothing else it could be.And here is where a player may reduce their chances of success by being too specific. By not telling you they are being polite, they are not causing you to increase the DC because you decide the NPC is less likely to respect someone who is polite. So that 5% chance of failure you mentioned before? That can absolutely happen here, but instead of it being becuase the player isn't getting something for free, it is because they took the chance to role-play and put themselves out there, and were punished for it. And that is where I find things get deeply problematic. Not because the approach should never change the DC, but because this example always comes up as being neccessary. That it is neccessary that you know whether or not you could possibly apply a bonus or penalty to the roll. I don't find that to be a neccessary component of most rolls. In fact, I rarely alter the DC for a roll, unless it is to give a bonus for a particularly good idea. I may have put a penalty on less than 20 rolls over the last 10 years, and only for egregious cases. So... I don't find myself particularly moved that I should require players to give me information so I can change the DC without their knowledge.</blockquote>

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