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Message: <blockquote data-quote="shadzar" data-source="post: 5437880" data-attributes="member: 6667746">1. GET OUT OF MY BRAIN!2. Not really, AD&D was made as a way to remove that dilution, but sadly WotC took 10 steps backwards renaming a new version of AD&D as just Dungeons and Dragons, which fooled many people.The problem isn't D&D doesn't exist, it has just been over in the corner with all this refuse thrown on top of it it cannot be seen as someone tries to make money off of the name.It has been said many times by many people that 4th edition has little to no need to have D&D as its name. It is only selling some new product with a recognizable name to those who would buy something with that name.This is true.What it will take for people to find D&D again is the same thing it took for people to start growing their own food rather than having it mailed to them from another country, or trucked to them 2000 miles. That is someone with the cajones to make the stand and say enough is enough. 4th edition doesn't need the name D&D and never did, so remove it, and let the people who like the system keep playing it under a different name. Too much design conflict. 3rd edition might as well be called the OGL game as all the basic rules anyone can use, it just happen the original product using it was full of D&D material and proprietary monsters/etc. Sadly others have done better with 3rd, excuse me, the OGL-system that D&D did.That means nothing of WotC is left in D&D. What do we have left?While many would argue over D&D as you say Moldvay v Mentzer etc, most of it is will play with the Rules Cyclopedia. Go forward with that and fix it up with the thigns it needs for today without trying to replace its engine with with something that performs similar, but loses many of the functions and features of the original engine.Take AD&D and just release it again. Many will argue over which to use, but they are, many have said, more compatible than 3.0 and 3.5.D&D has had the biggest identity crisis I have seen in any game, especially when WotC perverted it more by removing the "Advanced" from a game based on AD&D.AD&D was created to remove the dilution, and it is still the least diluted version of the game. There are TONS of settings, and they sometimes make drastic changes, but they are not the game itself.AD&D never claimed ot be D&D, and while confusing with its "Advanced" name to many at the time, and still today, it strove to remain the same. It also said up front, like 4th should have done, that this is not D&D but a different game. Similar but not the same.If someone asks me to play AD&D I will be reluctant, and ask what they will be using to find out if 1st or 2nd, and any other materials since there are so many, and what setting.If someone asked me to play Red Box D&D in the past I would have said, Yes, right away, until the new dilution to confuse people.Now, if anyone asks me to play D&D, I will just decline as odds are they will be talking about a version I am not interested in since it isn't Mentzer Red Box/ORC*, and odds are all the dilution with recent editions will lead to discussing them instead of playing the game. I can discuss the game fine online as to its recent changes, I don't need any game time wasted doing so.Maybe the game doesn't exist anymore because it is jsut a brand name. I surely wouldn't want my name to be attached to anything that was the cause of that.*ORC = Original Rules Cyclopedia, because WotC decided to confuse people by reusing that name again also.Anyone up for a game of ORC D&D?</blockquote>

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